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How long until apple blocks this? They are famous for protecting their walled garden and hostility towards cross platform development tools.
by floomk 3y ago
How long until apple blocks this? They are famous for protecting their walled garden and hostility towards cross platform development tools.
- andsoitis 3y ago> hostility towards cross platform development tools LLVM and clang are both cross platform
- smoldesu 3y agoLLVM was Open Source and supported GNU from the get-go, it didn't make sense to remove support after Apple bought up the core contributors. Clang is indeed an Apple original, but developing it without support for multiple platforms would be paramount to removing features supported in the underlying compiler. If either LLVM or Clang tried removing multiplatform support or totally relicensed itself, it would divide the community and make life hard for Apple. They could probably make WebKit a fully proprietary browser engine by rewriting the KHTML stuff, but what would they gain by removing features from an Open Source product they developed?
- floomk 3y agoLet me know when I can use those to develop an iOS app from Windows or Linux
- riscy 3y agoIf you write it in Swift or Objective-C, you're using LLVM and clang.
- cjensen 3y agoiOS is a supported target in Visual Studio Professional on Windows.
- moron4hire 3y agoIt requires you have a macOS machine somewhere on your network to use Xcode to do the actual build.
- TillE 3y agoMostly true, but you can do a lot of direct development work now with .NET hot restart: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/hot-restart https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/hot-restar...
- moron4hire 3y agoThis sounds mostly useless.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- seba_dos1 3y agoAFAIK building iOS apps on Linux is possible if you try really hard, but deploying isn't.
- audunw 3y agoI believe Zig is capable of this in a primitive way, and they got there by piggy-backing on LLVM development that Apple has contributed to. There's absolutely nothing Apple is doing to prevent you from developing on iOS from Windows or Linux. Much of the open source development they're doing is making it easier in theory. But in practice, there's just not enough people willing and interesting in putting in the work to set it up. Most iOS developers would just rather use the official tools. And why should Apple put in lots of extra work just to let people develop from other platforms? That's just never going to happen.
- andsoitis 3y agosome people ascribe hostility when instead they should infer indifference. if you have an activist mind, you over index on confirmation bias.
- apatheticonion 3y agoI don't know, considering that the only reason you can't compile an application targetting MacOS from your Linux CI/CD is a license that disallows the use of certain MacOS libraries from being used outside of MacOS - combined with Apple's history of aggressively ring-fencing their users, it's understandable that engineers would feel that it's deliberate. If you copy those libraries illegally to Linux, you can build for MacOS from Linux - so either Apple feels indifferent towards engineers building for MacOS or they want everyone to buy a Mac and compile release software locally. What worse is Apple doesn't provide any server-specific hardware/software for automation - so it really does feel like Apple expects people to build release software on MacBook Pros or something.
- Someone 3y ago> a license that disallows the use of certain MacOS libraries from being used outside of MacOS It doesn’t make a big difference in practice, but is there such a clause in their license? I thought the limitation was on Apple hardware. If so, you can build on Linux running on a Mac mini, for example.
- saagarjha 3y agoYou can do this with a fair amount of effort. I believe licensing prevents you from shipping those apps directly, though.
- mhh__ 3y agoAppleClang is both closed source and (I assume?) only for Mac
- riscy 3y agoIt’s open source: https://github.com/apple/llvm-project https://github.com/apple/llvm-project
- smoldesu 3y agoLLVM and Clang both are. Apple Clang is not. https://developer.apple.com/xcode/cpp/ https://developer.apple.com/xcode/cpp/ https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/policy/CMP0025.html https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/policy/CMP0025.html
- mhh__ 3y agoAppleClang, not Clang you'd get from (say) apt.
- JamesUtah07 3y agoProbably after launch. It’sa good way for developers to build and test apps for VP so they won’t go after it for now.
- vaxman 3y agoIt's 2023, there is probably a clause in the Developer Agreement that prevents streaming the materials provided under it to computers that aren't enrolled in the Developer Program. What you are supposing is that they might choose not to enforce that until their own headset is shipping in volume. If anything, they are building a case against this person while at the same time analyzing their suitability to park their ass in a chair in Cupertino...then it will go to an exec who will decide the person's fate. https://tenor.com/vKjA.gif https://tenor.com/vKjA.gif
- smoldesu 3y ago> And the Copyright Act doesn’t give creators, like Apple, a monopoly over transformative inventions that enable research into their product. Cf. Patton, 769 F.3d at 1276 (“The goal of copyright is to stimulate the creation of new works, not to furnish copyright holders with control over all markets.”). - Corellium Inc vs Apple Inc, D.C. Docket No. 9:19-cv-81160-RS: https://aboutblaw.com/7PK https://aboutblaw.com/7PK If Corellium can livestream a virtualized version of iOS on non-Apple hardware, I'd wager Joe Shmoe can livestream an official dev envrionment to their VR client.
- vaxman 3y agoNo, those are not affirmative defenses. If you accept the Developer Agreement and receive protected materials under it, you cannot redistribute, publish or stream it because of case law, sorry. I know it’s confusing because of all the little unethical assholes who hack apart every beta release and post about it on blogs run by morbidly obese grifter-enthusiasts, but it is actually quite simple —Apple can and does pick and choose who to enforce its agreements on, just as you may.
- riscy 3y agoYou can code in Swift using VSCode on any platform: https://www.swift.org/blog/vscode-extension/ https://www.swift.org/blog/vscode-extension/
- ra 3y agoIt's not about the language, it's about access to APIs. Apple's MO is to keep some APIs for itself, making them unavailable to third-parties.
- scarface_74 3y agoYou mean like every single operating system that has ever existed? Even if you do conceivably have access to “private APIs” that are not documented, you still shouldn’t use them.
- cycomanic 3y agoWhat do you mean "every" ? BSD, Linux?
- scarface_74 3y agoAnd guess what happens when you depend on non public APIs that implement the specifications on any of those operating systems when you either upgrade your OS or you try to move to another Unix variant.
- tw600040 3y ago//They are famous for protecting their walled garden and hostility towards cross platform development tools. Trying to deconstruct this to understand better. 2 possibilities. 1. Supporting cross platform development tools is actually in Apple's interest/business and they are being stupid not to support them. But so far it doesn't seem like they are losing anything by not supporting it going by their financials. 2. Supporting cross platform development tools is not in their interest - in which case they are doing the right thing by doing what's good for their business. So, where is the disconnect?
- tsimionescu 3y agoYou are thinking in terms of what is good for their business, when the GP was discussing in terms of what is good for everyone else. The fact that Apple has been successful in keeping a good reputation despite nickle-and-diming all developers working with their platform is only a badge of honor in the marketing world.
- proxiful-wash 3y agoGood. Screw OP for being a JERK ROFL. Honestly this is corporate sabotage. Might be hard for OP to find a gig in the US after this. Good.
- saagarjha 3y agoCan't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
- saagarjha 3y agoThis requires a Mac to work.