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It looks like a very cool product/service, but there's something... off... about this landing page. I can't quite put my finger on it. Two things I can think

It looks like a very cool product/service, but there's something... off... about this landing page. I can't quite put my finger on it. Two things I can think of right off the bat: 1. The use of the term "whitepaper". It's very "enterprisey" 2. It took me a bit of perusing to figure out what the product IS. I think the lead paragraph may need some tweaking In all, the landing page makes the product feel intimidating. Contrast to Parse's landing page (https://www.parse.com/ https://www.parse.com/) where it feels like I'm free to jump right in and tinker with it, but I also get the impression that it will scale up if I need it to. (Yes, I know the two services aren't offering the same thing).

Scriptor 15y ago
I agree with you on the landing page. The introductory paragraph seems rather "fluffy". That combined with the fact that it uses a whitepaper immediately gave me the feeling that it's not really meant as something for regular programmers to check out and hack with. It's surprising, since that's how many Clojure programmers get their start. On the other hand, it's very new so maybe they'll add more developer-friendly pages soon. Or maybe it's only meant for "enterprise" environments? Time will tell.
- nickik 15y ago
  Maybe its so new and unique that its hard or impossible to explain it in a pragraph.
  - fogus 15y ago
    Datomic is a UFO filled with advanced alien technology that has landed right on the National Mall.
    - nickik 15y ago
      Probebly an UFO from the Land of Lisp.
    - alkby 15y ago
      Any access to source? Looks nice but I have a bunch of questions about transactor.
  - rjn945 15y ago
    I think this has a lot to do with it. After an hour of reading, watching and thinking, I can't come up with any way to put it into one paragraph. Here's the shortest what and why I could come up with: Questioning Assumptions Many relational databases today operate based on assumptions that were true in the 1970s but are no longer true. Newer solutions such as key-value stores ("NoSQL") make unnecessary compromises in the ability to perform queries or make consistency guarantees. Datomic reconsiders the database in light of current computer set-ups: millions of times larger and faster disks and RAM, and distributed architectures connected over the internet. Data Model Instead of using table-based storage with explicit schemas, Datomic uses a simpler model wherein the database is made up of a large collection of "datoms" or facts. Each datom has 4 parts: an entity, an attribute, a value, and a time (denoted by the transaction number that added it the database). Example: John, :street, "23 Swift St.", T27 This simple data model has two main benefits. It makes your data less rigid and hence more agile and easier to change. Additionally, it makes it easy to handle data in non-traditional structures, such as hierarchies, sets or sparse tables. It also enables Datomic's time model... Time Like Clojure, Datomic incorporates an explicit model of time. All data is associated with a time and new data does not replace old data, but is added to it. Returning to our previous example, if John later changes his address, a new datom would be added to the database, e.g. John, :street, "17 Maple St.", T43 This mirrors the real world where the fact that John has moved does not erase the fact that John once lived on Swift St. This has multiple benefits: the ability to view the database at a point in time other than the present; no data is lost; the immutability of each datom allows for easy and pervasive caching. Move Data and Data Processing to Peers Traditionally databases use a client-server model where clients send queries and commands to a central database. This database holds all the data, performs all data processing, and manages the data storage and synchronization. Clients may only to access the data through the interface the server provides - typically SQL strings which may include a (relatively small) set of functions provided by the database. Datomic breaks this system apart. The only centralized component is data storage. Peers access the data storage through a new distributed component called a transactor. Finally, the most important part, data processing, now happens in the clients, which, considering their importance, have been renamed "peers". Queries are made in a declarative language called Datalog which is similar to but better than SQL. It's better because it more closely matches the model of the data itself (rather than thinking in terms of the implementation of tables in a database). Additionally, it's not restricted like SQL. It allows you to use your full programming language. You can write reusable rules that can then be composed in queries. Additionally, you can call any of your own functions. This is a big step up in power and it's made practical because of the distribution. If ran your query on central server, you'd have to be concerned about tying up a scare resource with a long-running query. When processing locally, that's not a concern. When a query is performed that data is loaded from central storage and placed into RAM (if it will fit). Later queries can use this locally cached data for fast queries. ---- That's definitely not all it does or all the benefits, but hopefully that's a good start.
sramsay 15y ago
I had the same reaction. I think Rich Hickey is a genius, and I'm an absolute Clojure nut. I have every confidence that this is probably a very cool thing. But judging from that opening description, I gather that Datomic puts the data and analysis in the same application. As a description of what the thing IS, it's about as informative as saying, "This new language allows you to take control of your computer by allowing you to give it coded instructions!" or "Our storage solution allows you to persistently store data!"
vdm 15y ago
This 'Architecture' page summarises it best. http://datomic.com/company/resources/architecture http://datomic.com/company/resources/architecture
spullara 15y ago
If I got one thing out of this article, it is your comment and link to Parse. That looks pretty nice! The landing page for datomic is horrible and I didn't make it past the small, dense text.
Zak 15y ago
The use of the term "whitepaper". It's very "enterprisey" As a tangent, I'm really curious as to why this document is in a PDF file instead of simply being a web page. I can't see that doing much other than making it less convenient to read.

Scriptor 15y ago

I agree with you on the landing page. The introductory paragraph seems rather "fluffy". That combined with the fact that it uses a whitepaper immediately gave me the feeling that it's not really meant as something for regular programmers to check out and hack with. It's surprising, since that's how many Clojure programmers get their start. On the other hand, it's very new so maybe they'll add more developer-friendly pages soon. Or maybe it's only meant for "enterprise" environments? Time will tell.

nickik 15y ago
Maybe its so new and unique that its hard or impossible to explain it in a pragraph.
- fogus 15y ago
  Datomic is a UFO filled with advanced alien technology that has landed right on the National Mall.
  - nickik 15y ago
    Probebly an UFO from the Land of Lisp.
  - alkby 15y ago
    Any access to source? Looks nice but I have a bunch of questions about transactor.
- rjn945 15y ago
  I think this has a lot to do with it. After an hour of reading, watching and thinking, I can't come up with any way to put it into one paragraph. Here's the shortest what and why I could come up with: Questioning Assumptions Many relational databases today operate based on assumptions that were true in the 1970s but are no longer true. Newer solutions such as key-value stores ("NoSQL") make unnecessary compromises in the ability to perform queries or make consistency guarantees. Datomic reconsiders the database in light of current computer set-ups: millions of times larger and faster disks and RAM, and distributed architectures connected over the internet. Data Model Instead of using table-based storage with explicit schemas, Datomic uses a simpler model wherein the database is made up of a large collection of "datoms" or facts. Each datom has 4 parts: an entity, an attribute, a value, and a time (denoted by the transaction number that added it the database). Example: John, :street, "23 Swift St.", T27 This simple data model has two main benefits. It makes your data less rigid and hence more agile and easier to change. Additionally, it makes it easy to handle data in non-traditional structures, such as hierarchies, sets or sparse tables. It also enables Datomic's time model... Time Like Clojure, Datomic incorporates an explicit model of time. All data is associated with a time and new data does not replace old data, but is added to it. Returning to our previous example, if John later changes his address, a new datom would be added to the database, e.g. John, :street, "17 Maple St.", T43 This mirrors the real world where the fact that John has moved does not erase the fact that John once lived on Swift St. This has multiple benefits: the ability to view the database at a point in time other than the present; no data is lost; the immutability of each datom allows for easy and pervasive caching. Move Data and Data Processing to Peers Traditionally databases use a client-server model where clients send queries and commands to a central database. This database holds all the data, performs all data processing, and manages the data storage and synchronization. Clients may only to access the data through the interface the server provides - typically SQL strings which may include a (relatively small) set of functions provided by the database. Datomic breaks this system apart. The only centralized component is data storage. Peers access the data storage through a new distributed component called a transactor. Finally, the most important part, data processing, now happens in the clients, which, considering their importance, have been renamed "peers". Queries are made in a declarative language called Datalog which is similar to but better than SQL. It's better because it more closely matches the model of the data itself (rather than thinking in terms of the implementation of tables in a database). Additionally, it's not restricted like SQL. It allows you to use your full programming language. You can write reusable rules that can then be composed in queries. Additionally, you can call any of your own functions. This is a big step up in power and it's made practical because of the distribution. If ran your query on central server, you'd have to be concerned about tying up a scare resource with a long-running query. When processing locally, that's not a concern. When a query is performed that data is loaded from central storage and placed into RAM (if it will fit). Later queries can use this locally cached data for fast queries. ---- That's definitely not all it does or all the benefits, but hopefully that's a good start.

sramsay 15y ago

I had the same reaction. I think Rich Hickey is a genius, and I'm an absolute Clojure nut. I have every confidence that this is probably a very cool thing. But judging from that opening description, I gather that Datomic puts the data and analysis in the same application. As a description of what the thing IS, it's about as informative as saying, "This new language allows you to take control of your computer by allowing you to give it coded instructions!" or "Our storage solution allows you to persistently store data!"

vdm 15y ago

This 'Architecture' page summarises it best. http://datomic.com/company/resources/architecture http://datomic.com/company/resources/architecture

spullara 15y ago

If I got one thing out of this article, it is your comment and link to Parse. That looks pretty nice! The landing page for datomic is horrible and I didn't make it past the small, dense text.

Zak 15y ago

The use of the term "whitepaper". It's very "enterprisey" As a tangent, I'm really curious as to why this document is in a PDF file instead of simply being a web page. I can't see that doing much other than making it less convenient to read.