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Related: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-administrative-bloat-in-us-public-schools/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-administrati

Related: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-administrative-bloat-in-us-public-schools/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-administrati... I always thought the issue was in admin body count. However, just picking the largest universities in Germany and US on wikipedia we see: Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich Academic staff: 5,565 Administrative staff: 8,208 Students: 51,606 Michigan State University Academic staff: 5,703 Administrative staff: 7,365 Students: 49,809 Those look pretty comparable, so what is going on?

solarmist 3y ago
Limited budget vs uncapped budget. The way student loans are structured is the cause.
akiselev 3y ago
Michigan state is a public university, which generally aren't as bad because their mission tend towards providing low cost education to residents. Stanford University, for example: Academic staff: 2,279; Administrative staff: 15,314, Students: 17,246 - that's basically 1:1 A less prestigious private university like University of Southern California: Academic staff: 4,706; Administrative staff: 16,614; Students: 49,318 - that's about 1:2.5
- ericmay 3y ago
  But both of those universities are quasi-private (I don't consider any university to be truly private unless proven otherwise) so it's less of a concern. That being said w.r.t administrative staff some of those staff may be research scientists that work with academic staff, or maybe they're dual-employed at Meta and Stanford, or something like that. You have to really break down the administrative staff number (if that's what's of concern here) to see what people are doing to make an informed argument (not saying you are making an uninformed argument or anything like that). -edit- For a while I was in on the administrative staff thing and I certainly think there is bloat and just flat out incompetence at many universities in this area, but I also think it's a bit of a red herring to avoid other issues like funding reductions, etc.
UncleMeat 3y ago
Are adjuncts included in those numbers? Universities use a ton of contract labor to teach classes and those adjuncts aren't actually employees.

solarmist 3y ago

Limited budget vs uncapped budget. The way student loans are structured is the cause.

akiselev 3y ago

Michigan state is a public university, which generally aren't as bad because their mission tend towards providing low cost education to residents. Stanford University, for example: Academic staff: 2,279; Administrative staff: 15,314, Students: 17,246 - that's basically 1:1 A less prestigious private university like University of Southern California: Academic staff: 4,706; Administrative staff: 16,614; Students: 49,318 - that's about 1:2.5

ericmay 3y ago
But both of those universities are quasi-private (I don't consider any university to be truly private unless proven otherwise) so it's less of a concern. That being said w.r.t administrative staff some of those staff may be research scientists that work with academic staff, or maybe they're dual-employed at Meta and Stanford, or something like that. You have to really break down the administrative staff number (if that's what's of concern here) to see what people are doing to make an informed argument (not saying you are making an uninformed argument or anything like that). -edit- For a while I was in on the administrative staff thing and I certainly think there is bloat and just flat out incompetence at many universities in this area, but I also think it's a bit of a red herring to avoid other issues like funding reductions, etc.

UncleMeat 3y ago

Are adjuncts included in those numbers? Universities use a ton of contract labor to teach classes and those adjuncts aren't actually employees.