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I don't know many other jobs that work this way. Imagine getting a construction job and having to supply your own jackhammer or take out a temporary loan to buy

I don't know many other jobs that work this way. Imagine getting a construction job and having to supply your own jackhammer or take out a temporary loan to buy one. Doesn't the company have some they should supply you with? Gig-economy jobs work this way, e.g. Uber and Lyft, but those are problematic for the same reason (and a lot more reasons imho). As another commenter said, you're adding wear and tear to your own device. Sure, I have my own computers, but they're all spoken for, hosting VMs and containers or acting as my lab. Why should I subsidize the profits of a multi-million-dollar, for-profit company by letting them use my computer at no extra cost? Your e-waste point is a good one, but I don't think Canonical's managers were looking out for mother nature when they made that choice.

HumblyTossed 3y ago
Mechanics tend to bring their own tools.
- manifoldgeo 3y ago
  That's true. And for new mechanics that don't have their own tools yet, there are vendors like Snap-On that drive tool trucks to different garages will sell them tools on a payment plan. This creates a situation where a person in a new job starts out in the red, being indebted from the start simply because they need new tools. At least it's not as bad as the gilded age where workers got paid in company-store scrip and lived in company housing in a company-run town. Still, I think it's a step in the wrong direction. I'm not trying to be dramatic or imply that Canonical's device policy is some act of pure evil, but it was a contributing factor to my decision not to move forward. I have a computer that would serve the purpose just fine. It's more about principles. By itself, that policy wouldn't have been so bad, but combined with other red flags it was enough for me to stay away.
  - jes 3y ago
    Snap-On tools are great. They also cost an arm and a leg. Yet if you put a 3' pipe on your 1/2" ratchet and break the ratchet, the tool guy will fix it or replace it on his next visit.
presbyterian 3y ago
Construction workers (and mechanics and most other jobs where you're using standard tools) do require you to provide your own tools, that's why you'll often see Snap-On trucks touring around garages. Obviously for bigger, specialized equipment like a jackhammer or an excavator, they provide them, but I think a laptop is much closer to a set of tools in this analogy.
- manifoldgeo 3y ago
  That's a good point, a computer is probably more screwdriver and less jackhammer. I still dislike companies that externalize their costs to their employees, but I do agree my analogy was slightly off. Funny, I actually mentioned Snap-On by name in one of my other replies, probably around the same time you were commenting. They've got good brand recognition, apparently!
  - presbyterian 3y ago
    > I still dislike companies that externalize their costs to their employees I actually agree, I would personally not work somewhere that made me bring my own laptop, I prefer having a solid divide between work and home. But on that note, I also don't like having a work laptop, I prefer to have a desktop, that way I know I'm never taking work home lol
kevinmchugh 3y ago
Comparing to other industries is unlikely to be useful, because many craftspeople do own their tools and bring them job to job. Who owns the tools will depend on the specific tools and needs of a job.
- happymellon 3y ago
  Indeed, your hammer isn't going to be taken from you if the building firm does something bad to another company, and besides your hammer doesn't potentially have your bank/email/etc details on it.
gumby 3y ago
Chefs bring their own knives. Many skilled laborers in construction bring their own hand tools, especially at the high end (cabinetmakers, finish plasterers, etc). In many industries workers must pay for their uniforms and safety equipment (the uniform part seems particularly egregious to me -- it is company specific yet you have to pay for it and look after it). Lawyers and salespeople have to pay for their fancy suits.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  automechanics own their own tools, easily $10,000 or double or more worth.
asadotzler 3y ago
As a house painter I brought my own boots, cap, and whites, my own paint brushes and rollers (and poles) my own 5-in-1, and my own caulking gun. Spray rigs and and other power tools as well as ladders and scaffolding were provided by the boss.
- happymellon 3y ago
  At least in the UK, some of these are a tax deduction. Most knowledge workers cannot deduct their laptop.

HumblyTossed 3y ago

Mechanics tend to bring their own tools.

manifoldgeo 3y ago
That's true. And for new mechanics that don't have their own tools yet, there are vendors like Snap-On that drive tool trucks to different garages will sell them tools on a payment plan. This creates a situation where a person in a new job starts out in the red, being indebted from the start simply because they need new tools. At least it's not as bad as the gilded age where workers got paid in company-store scrip and lived in company housing in a company-run town. Still, I think it's a step in the wrong direction. I'm not trying to be dramatic or imply that Canonical's device policy is some act of pure evil, but it was a contributing factor to my decision not to move forward. I have a computer that would serve the purpose just fine. It's more about principles. By itself, that policy wouldn't have been so bad, but combined with other red flags it was enough for me to stay away.
- jes 3y ago
  Snap-On tools are great. They also cost an arm and a leg. Yet if you put a 3' pipe on your 1/2" ratchet and break the ratchet, the tool guy will fix it or replace it on his next visit.

presbyterian 3y ago

Construction workers (and mechanics and most other jobs where you're using standard tools) do require you to provide your own tools, that's why you'll often see Snap-On trucks touring around garages. Obviously for bigger, specialized equipment like a jackhammer or an excavator, they provide them, but I think a laptop is much closer to a set of tools in this analogy.

manifoldgeo 3y ago
That's a good point, a computer is probably more screwdriver and less jackhammer. I still dislike companies that externalize their costs to their employees, but I do agree my analogy was slightly off. Funny, I actually mentioned Snap-On by name in one of my other replies, probably around the same time you were commenting. They've got good brand recognition, apparently!
- presbyterian 3y ago
  > I still dislike companies that externalize their costs to their employees I actually agree, I would personally not work somewhere that made me bring my own laptop, I prefer having a solid divide between work and home. But on that note, I also don't like having a work laptop, I prefer to have a desktop, that way I know I'm never taking work home lol

kevinmchugh 3y ago

Comparing to other industries is unlikely to be useful, because many craftspeople do own their tools and bring them job to job. Who owns the tools will depend on the specific tools and needs of a job.

happymellon 3y ago
Indeed, your hammer isn't going to be taken from you if the building firm does something bad to another company, and besides your hammer doesn't potentially have your bank/email/etc details on it.

gumby 3y ago

Chefs bring their own knives. Many skilled laborers in construction bring their own hand tools, especially at the high end (cabinetmakers, finish plasterers, etc). In many industries workers must pay for their uniforms and safety equipment (the uniform part seems particularly egregious to me -- it is company specific yet you have to pay for it and look after it). Lawyers and salespeople have to pay for their fancy suits.

fsckboy 3y ago
automechanics own their own tools, easily $10,000 or double or more worth.

asadotzler 3y ago

As a house painter I brought my own boots, cap, and whites, my own paint brushes and rollers (and poles) my own 5-in-1, and my own caulking gun. Spray rigs and and other power tools as well as ladders and scaffolding were provided by the boss.

happymellon 3y ago
At least in the UK, some of these are a tax deduction. Most knowledge workers cannot deduct their laptop.