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Another great tool solving the exact problem we're willing to solve using an external service we can't use. No company at a decent size (those who actually rea

by Intox 3y ago

Another great tool solving the exact problem we're willing to solve using an external service we can't use. No company at a decent size (those who actually reach some complexity of documentation) will be okay with exfiltrating confidential information to an external service we have no deal or NDA with. Sure, OpenAI is easy to integrate, but it's also an absolute showstopper for a company. We don't need state-of-the-art LLMs with 800k context, we need confidentiality.

dimal 3y ago
I'm kinda confused by this. Every company already keeps their data in Google Docs, Notion, Slack, Confluence, Jira, or any number of other providers. When you sign up for one of these services, there's always a compliance step to make sure it's ok. OpenAI's TOS says they don't use API data for training. So what makes sending this data to OpenAI different than sending it to any of the above providers? This is an honest question. I don't understand the difference.
- nrjames 3y ago
  For our part, we self-host Confluence and gitlab, have tons of internal documentation and web pages, are are prohibited from using external tools unless they can be hosted internally in a sandboxed manner. There's no way on the planet they would approve the use of connecting to an OpenAI API for trawling through internal documentation.
  - rolisz 3y ago
    There are open source models that can deliver pretty well for chatbot over internal documentation. If you're interested, feel free to reach out to me.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ixfo 3y ago
  Trust. OpenAI's ignored everyone's copyright and legal usage terms for the rest of their training data, what lawyer is going to trust them to follow their contractual terms?
- floomk 3y ago
  Why would you send your data to the company that built its value by slurping up everyone's data without consent? It doesn't matter what they promise now, they have shown that they dont care about intellectual property, copyright or any of that. They literally cannot be trusted.
  - dimal 3y ago
    Isn't this what Google search does? Yet Google Docs, Gmail, etc are all OK?
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      It doesn't matter either way. What matters is that Google offers proper enterprise contracts. Contracts that are enforceable and transfer a lot of legal liability to the vendor. OpenAI, generally, does not offer such things. Google Search itself is a somewhat special case - it gets a free pass because of its utility and because you're unlikely to paste anything confidential into a search box. But there are many places where even Google Search is banned on the data security grounds. OpenAI offerings - ChatGPT, the playground, and the API - all very much encourage pasting large amounts of confidential information into them, which is why any organization with minimum of legal sense is banning or curtailing their use.
- jsiepkes 3y ago
  > Every company already keeps their data in Google Docs The TOS for the (paid) enterprise products such as Google workspace are totally different from the (free) consumer versions. For example Google can't use the data for AI training.
  - curl-up 3y ago
    TOS of OpenAI API (which tools like this use) do not allow for model training on the data either. You might be confusing their API with ChatGPT, which has a different policy.
    - Epa095 3y ago
      IANAL, but I read the openai api TOS earlier today, and they keep data for up to 30 days for "review" and multiple people can get access to it. If I had confidential data I would not send it to them. Microsoft on the other hand seems to have a option where absolutely no data is stored for their openai service.
      - dimal 3y ago
        You use "review" in quotes, but I don't see that word used in reference to the 30 day policy. This is what I see: > Any data sent through the API will be retained for abuse and misuse monitoring purposes for a maximum of 30 days, after which it will be deleted (unless otherwise required by law). [0] The word "review" implies humans reading your data, but this wording only says it's retained for "monitoring". That could mean other things. Or are you seeing the "review" wording somewhere else? [0] https://openai.com/policies/api-data-usage-policies https://openai.com/policies/api-data-usage-policies
        Epa095 3y ago
        It is true that the word "review" was my own, it was my interpretation of this paragraph >OpenAI retains API data for 30 days for abuse and misuse monitoring purposes. A limited number of authorized OpenAI employees, as well as specialized third-party contractors that are subject to confidentiality and security obligations, can access this data solely to investigate and verify suspected abuse.
rolisz 3y ago
Two weeks ago I finished a project for a client who wanted a "talk to your documents" application, without using OpenAI or other 3rd party APIs, but by using open source models running on their own infrastructure. If you're interested in something similar, send me an email.

by Intox 3y ago

dimal 3y ago

I'm kinda confused by this. Every company already keeps their data in Google Docs, Notion, Slack, Confluence, Jira, or any number of other providers. When you sign up for one of these services, there's always a compliance step to make sure it's ok. OpenAI's TOS says they don't use API data for training. So what makes sending this data to OpenAI different than sending it to any of the above providers? This is an honest question. I don't understand the difference.

nrjames 3y ago
For our part, we self-host Confluence and gitlab, have tons of internal documentation and web pages, are are prohibited from using external tools unless they can be hosted internally in a sandboxed manner. There's no way on the planet they would approve the use of connecting to an OpenAI API for trawling through internal documentation.
- rolisz 3y ago
  There are open source models that can deliver pretty well for chatbot over internal documentation. If you're interested, feel free to reach out to me.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ixfo 3y ago
Trust. OpenAI's ignored everyone's copyright and legal usage terms for the rest of their training data, what lawyer is going to trust them to follow their contractual terms?
floomk 3y ago
Why would you send your data to the company that built its value by slurping up everyone's data without consent? It doesn't matter what they promise now, they have shown that they dont care about intellectual property, copyright or any of that. They literally cannot be trusted.
- dimal 3y ago
  Isn't this what Google search does? Yet Google Docs, Gmail, etc are all OK?
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    It doesn't matter either way. What matters is that Google offers proper enterprise contracts. Contracts that are enforceable and transfer a lot of legal liability to the vendor. OpenAI, generally, does not offer such things. Google Search itself is a somewhat special case - it gets a free pass because of its utility and because you're unlikely to paste anything confidential into a search box. But there are many places where even Google Search is banned on the data security grounds. OpenAI offerings - ChatGPT, the playground, and the API - all very much encourage pasting large amounts of confidential information into them, which is why any organization with minimum of legal sense is banning or curtailing their use.
jsiepkes 3y ago
> Every company already keeps their data in Google Docs The TOS for the (paid) enterprise products such as Google workspace are totally different from the (free) consumer versions. For example Google can't use the data for AI training.
- curl-up 3y ago
  TOS of OpenAI API (which tools like this use) do not allow for model training on the data either. You might be confusing their API with ChatGPT, which has a different policy.
  - Epa095 3y ago
    IANAL, but I read the openai api TOS earlier today, and they keep data for up to 30 days for "review" and multiple people can get access to it. If I had confidential data I would not send it to them. Microsoft on the other hand seems to have a option where absolutely no data is stored for their openai service.
    - dimal 3y ago
      You use "review" in quotes, but I don't see that word used in reference to the 30 day policy. This is what I see: > Any data sent through the API will be retained for abuse and misuse monitoring purposes for a maximum of 30 days, after which it will be deleted (unless otherwise required by law). [0] The word "review" implies humans reading your data, but this wording only says it's retained for "monitoring". That could mean other things. Or are you seeing the "review" wording somewhere else? [0] https://openai.com/policies/api-data-usage-policies https://openai.com/policies/api-data-usage-policies
      - Epa095 3y ago
        It is true that the word "review" was my own, it was my interpretation of this paragraph >OpenAI retains API data for 30 days for abuse and misuse monitoring purposes. A limited number of authorized OpenAI employees, as well as specialized third-party contractors that are subject to confidentiality and security obligations, can access this data solely to investigate and verify suspected abuse.

rolisz 3y ago

Two weeks ago I finished a project for a client who wanted a "talk to your documents" application, without using OpenAI or other 3rd party APIs, but by using open source models running on their own infrastructure. If you're interested in something similar, send me an email.