6 ms·

Before anyone dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones, I’ll say that it’s truly admirable of them to

Before anyone dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones, I’ll say that it’s truly admirable of them to always focus on the problem than getting excited over new tech. Has that prevented them from advancing as a society? No. Has that prevented new innovations? Certainly not. This has likely prevented a lot of devices from being decommissioned and adding to our recycling woes and landfill. For contrast, a typical North American company refreshes all computers every 3 years. Imagine that. I am sure that where it matters, companies are using newer tooling, but where the benefits are minuscule - there’s no pressure to change. Japanese people can take comfort in knowing their favourite hardware will be supported for a very long time.

sheepscreek 3y ago
I think there’s a fundamental difference in how the two societies work which is at play here. In North America, we are largely driven by monetary benefits. Everything is done to optimize profits, that eventually translates to a fatter paycheque for the CEO. That thinking trickles down. There’s only one hard rule, don’t break any laws. Everything else is game. At the very bottom, you generally have people that have been marginalized. The society has written them off. They work many jobs to merely survive. I’ll save more on that for another day. In comparison, Japanese society is driven by honour. Executives are less likely to take decisions solely for generating demand, through innovative marketing or trickery. People work their entire lives for the same company - that looks after them. The proverbial “salaryman”. This kind of motivation creates more clarity on the end goal/purpose, which leads to more innovation. When you’re not chasing the golden goose and are driven by honour/respect, you’re more likely to be focused on the customer and what’s truly in their best interest. Some NA companies do this too - but it’s not a trait we particularly value above all else and is far far from being the norm. The genuine concern for another being, even in business, is embedded in Japanese culture. Whether it’s being on time, or masking when you’re sick to protect others around you. Truly fascinating and admirable (though not without trad-offs).
- vjust 3y ago
  Well put.
- stevezsa8 3y ago
  This was interesting to read. Is it based on experience of living in Japan, or research? I found the part about companies looking after the employee really interesting. Having worked entirely in Europe, I've found most managers screwing over subordinates. I've encountered plenty of bully managers, never one who seemed to genuinely care.
  - evilos 3y ago
    Patrick (patio11) has some great blogs about working in Japan and the culture, if you're interested. I found this one insightful and very entertaining: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...
  - turmacar 3y ago
    That last little "(though not without trad-offs)" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Not that there isn't some general truth to what they're saying, but it's definitely the rose-tinted glasses 'how it should work' view of Japanese corporate culture.
- CatWChainsaw 3y ago
  The only hard rule is don't get caught breaking laws. If you do, pretend to apologize, fire a fall guy, and pay the smallest fine possible while not admitting guilt.
JohnFen 3y ago
> dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones I agree, but those are interesting examples because they're not unique to Japanese culture. Fax machines common enough in the US for them to be continue to be useful, and I see more and more people using flip phones as time goes by.
patrec 3y ago
> Before anyone dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones, I’ll say that it’s truly admirable of them to always focus on the problem than getting excited over new tech. Excluding totalitarian communist monarchies, the Japanese are, human-capital adjusted, about the least productive people on earth. So they are not actually "focusing on the problem". > Has that prevented them from advancing as a society? No. The US pumped out a number of popular and populist movies and books in the 80ies and 90ies that betray a real fear of being overtaken by Japan. The notion seems completely ridiculous nowadays, and a glance of the GDP development of both countries over the last four decades will immediately make clear why. > Has that prevented new innovations? Certainly not. So what important innovations have come out of Japan in the last 40 years? Japan has a lot of admirable qualities, but a pragmatic focus on productivity and innovation is not one of them.
- wazzer 3y ago
  have you got any sources for those claims? I’d be interested in learning more!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - patrec 3y ago
    Productivity: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?QueryId=107229 https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?QueryId=107229 Human Capital (let's take Pisa scores as a proxy): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_St... GDP growth, JPN vs US https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-gdp-constant-usd-wb?tab=chart&time=1980..latest&country=JPN~USA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-gdp-constant-usd... (Worth pointing out that the US population has grown by ~1/3 whilst Japan has remained about constant, so per capita the effect is not as pronounced)
    - patrec 3y ago
      P.S. Movies: Great example: https://youtu.be/Km6bFBSVty4?t=74 https://youtu.be/Km6bFBSVty4?t=74 https://www.pastposters.com/details.php?prodId=4514 https://www.pastposters.com/details.php?prodId=4514 https://filmandfurniture.com/2014/09/blade-runner-design-whiskey-glasses/ https://filmandfurniture.com/2014/09/blade-runner-design-whi... Books: Neuromancer etc. Good compilation: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JapanTakesOverTheWorld https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JapanTakesOverTh...

sheepscreek 3y ago

I think there’s a fundamental difference in how the two societies work which is at play here. In North America, we are largely driven by monetary benefits. Everything is done to optimize profits, that eventually translates to a fatter paycheque for the CEO. That thinking trickles down. There’s only one hard rule, don’t break any laws. Everything else is game. At the very bottom, you generally have people that have been marginalized. The society has written them off. They work many jobs to merely survive. I’ll save more on that for another day. In comparison, Japanese society is driven by honour. Executives are less likely to take decisions solely for generating demand, through innovative marketing or trickery. People work their entire lives for the same company - that looks after them. The proverbial “salaryman”. This kind of motivation creates more clarity on the end goal/purpose, which leads to more innovation. When you’re not chasing the golden goose and are driven by honour/respect, you’re more likely to be focused on the customer and what’s truly in their best interest. Some NA companies do this too - but it’s not a trait we particularly value above all else and is far far from being the norm. The genuine concern for another being, even in business, is embedded in Japanese culture. Whether it’s being on time, or masking when you’re sick to protect others around you. Truly fascinating and admirable (though not without trad-offs).

vjust 3y ago
Well put.
stevezsa8 3y ago
This was interesting to read. Is it based on experience of living in Japan, or research? I found the part about companies looking after the employee really interesting. Having worked entirely in Europe, I've found most managers screwing over subordinates. I've encountered plenty of bully managers, never one who seemed to genuinely care.
- evilos 3y ago
  Patrick (patio11) has some great blogs about working in Japan and the culture, if you're interested. I found this one insightful and very entertaining: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...
- turmacar 3y ago
  That last little "(though not without trad-offs)" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Not that there isn't some general truth to what they're saying, but it's definitely the rose-tinted glasses 'how it should work' view of Japanese corporate culture.
CatWChainsaw 3y ago
The only hard rule is don't get caught breaking laws. If you do, pretend to apologize, fire a fall guy, and pay the smallest fine possible while not admitting guilt.

JohnFen 3y ago

> dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones I agree, but those are interesting examples because they're not unique to Japanese culture. Fax machines common enough in the US for them to be continue to be useful, and I see more and more people using flip phones as time goes by.

patrec 3y ago

> Before anyone dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones, I’ll say that it’s truly admirable of them to always focus on the problem than getting excited over new tech. Excluding totalitarian communist monarchies, the Japanese are, human-capital adjusted, about the least productive people on earth. So they are not actually "focusing on the problem". > Has that prevented them from advancing as a society? No. The US pumped out a number of popular and populist movies and books in the 80ies and 90ies that betray a real fear of being overtaken by Japan. The notion seems completely ridiculous nowadays, and a glance of the GDP development of both countries over the last four decades will immediately make clear why. > Has that prevented new innovations? Certainly not. So what important innovations have come out of Japan in the last 40 years? Japan has a lot of admirable qualities, but a pragmatic focus on productivity and innovation is not one of them.

wazzer 3y ago
have you got any sources for those claims? I’d be interested in learning more!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- patrec 3y ago
  Productivity: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?QueryId=107229 https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?QueryId=107229 Human Capital (let's take Pisa scores as a proxy): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_St... GDP growth, JPN vs US https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-gdp-constant-usd-wb?tab=chart&time=1980..latest&country=JPN~USA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-gdp-constant-usd... (Worth pointing out that the US population has grown by ~1/3 whilst Japan has remained about constant, so per capita the effect is not as pronounced)
  - patrec 3y ago
    P.S. Movies: Great example: https://youtu.be/Km6bFBSVty4?t=74 https://youtu.be/Km6bFBSVty4?t=74 https://www.pastposters.com/details.php?prodId=4514 https://www.pastposters.com/details.php?prodId=4514 https://filmandfurniture.com/2014/09/blade-runner-design-whiskey-glasses/ https://filmandfurniture.com/2014/09/blade-runner-design-whi... Books: Neuromancer etc. Good compilation: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JapanTakesOverTheWorld https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JapanTakesOverTh...