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> Make them type IRREVERSIBLY DELETE MY ACCOUNT!, in all caps, with punctuation. This is what GitHub does. But incidents like this still happen: https://httpie

> Make them type IRREVERSIBLY DELETE MY ACCOUNT!, in all caps, with punctuation. This is what GitHub does. But incidents like this still happen: https://httpie.io/blog/stardust https://httpie.io/blog/stardust > Due to an unfortunate sequence of events, I accidentally made the project’s repository private for a moment. And GitHub cascade-deleted our community that took 10 years to build. > There’s a confirmation box. It’s designed to stop users in a situation like mine from doing something stupid. It tells you that “You will permanently lose all stars and watchers of this repository.” If it happens to experienced developers, imagine the laymen. Humans are just fallible, I guess.

LorenPechtel 3y ago
Github does it wrong. This is the sort of situation that calls for a type-name-to act approach. It ensures that you're acting on the object you think you're acting on.
- 0_____0 3y ago
  This is what DigitalOcean does.
- js2 3y ago
  But GitHub does require you to type the org and repo name. The linked blog post includes a screenshot of it: https://httpie.io/_next/image?url=%2FBlog%2Fstardust%2Fconfirm-B3X7QRNG.jpg&w=1200&q=95 https://httpie.io/_next/image?url=%2FBlog%2Fstardust%2Fconfi... The developer was on automatic because he had just been working with another repo and the two repo names were similar, so the type to confirm didn't prevent the mistake. The blog post suggests other changes GitHub could make.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    "If you make something idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot." I think there's a literal psychological disease in American culture, where if you fuck up, then someone else was to blame for not preventing you from doing it. I think we just need less of that (not more of that) to force people to understand that they need to be considering the effects of their actions before they do them.
    - js2 3y ago
      Accident investigations intentionally do not apply blame. Humans are fallible. We make mistakes. If one human makes a mistake, others will too. The author of the httpie blog post does not apply blame. In fact, he goes out of his way to explain his error, then suggests changes that would have prevented his mistake, to hopefully save others from the same mistake. So we can blame humans as you seem to want to do, or we can accept human behavior and design our systems to be more forgiving. cdelsolar at the top of this thread wrote that "I get emails, every single day" and that "It literally drives me crazy." So what should cdelsolar do? Blame all the humans accidentally deleting their accounts, or find a way to design around it? I know which approach I would take. Let me suggest this book btw: https://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-Understanding-Human-Error/dp/1472439058 https://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-Understanding-Human-Error...
      - lamontcg 3y ago
        > Accident investigations intentionally do not apply blame. Yeah they do and pilot error is very common: > During 2004 in the United States, pilot error was listed as the primary cause of 78.6% of fatal general aviation accidents, and as the primary cause of 75.5% of general aviation accidents overall.[27] For scheduled air transport, pilot error typically accounts for just over half of worldwide accidents with a known cause They can try to address that through training, certification, recertification and updates to manuals and checklists, but at some point some level of human failure is going to be inevitable. And with UI/UX like this there isn't much ability to do that, since people don't get certified on using GitHub. Meanwhile, it is going to be very difficult to break people who are stuck on "autopilot" and just aren't reading anything out of it vi any kinds of dialogs or messages. Gonna delete 8,000,000 stars on this project? Good. Oh wait. Whoops. I'd like to see if the change to the UX to show that information has made any actual measurable impact on the accidental deletion incidents that GH sees. There isn't any good substitute for just learning early that if you are going to delete something you need to stop, think, read and wait a second before hitting that button. Trying to fashion a world where people can navigate it successfully on completely thoughtless autopilot all the time isn't possible. Also, that blog post is irritating because "Lesson #1" should have been for the author to STOP AND THINK when deleting or presented with a scary modal dialog box that actions were going to be permanent. My reading of that blog post is that the author didn't actually accept any blame, didn't see any need to change any of their behavior and shifted it all onto GH. It is equivalent to a non-apology-apology.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
    I'm a professional developer and all that, I recently accidentally formatted my phone (and screamed to my stupidity). In twrp there is a "wipe" section that's used to well, wipe the phone, or optionally wipe the cache. I went in sure it was to wipe the cache, it clearly stated it would erase stuff, i still did. Sometimes the brain just farts.
js2 3y ago
Discussion on that blog post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31033758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31033758 Expecting humans to change will lead to frustration. Humans won't change. You have to construct your process around the way humans actually behave, not the way you wish they would or think they should. Apply lessons from accident investigations.
scrps 3y ago
I think for big orgs there could be a two-man rule system like they use in minuteman missile control, two designated members have to both agree to delete a repo or anything seriously irreversible.
gowld 3y ago
GitHub is stupid. Deletion about go into quarantine for 30days before purging.

LorenPechtel 3y ago

Github does it wrong. This is the sort of situation that calls for a type-name-to act approach. It ensures that you're acting on the object you think you're acting on.

0_____0 3y ago
This is what DigitalOcean does.
js2 3y ago
But GitHub does require you to type the org and repo name. The linked blog post includes a screenshot of it: https://httpie.io/_next/image?url=%2FBlog%2Fstardust%2Fconfirm-B3X7QRNG.jpg&w=1200&q=95 https://httpie.io/_next/image?url=%2FBlog%2Fstardust%2Fconfi... The developer was on automatic because he had just been working with another repo and the two repo names were similar, so the type to confirm didn't prevent the mistake. The blog post suggests other changes GitHub could make.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  "If you make something idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot." I think there's a literal psychological disease in American culture, where if you fuck up, then someone else was to blame for not preventing you from doing it. I think we just need less of that (not more of that) to force people to understand that they need to be considering the effects of their actions before they do them.
  - js2 3y ago
    Accident investigations intentionally do not apply blame. Humans are fallible. We make mistakes. If one human makes a mistake, others will too. The author of the httpie blog post does not apply blame. In fact, he goes out of his way to explain his error, then suggests changes that would have prevented his mistake, to hopefully save others from the same mistake. So we can blame humans as you seem to want to do, or we can accept human behavior and design our systems to be more forgiving. cdelsolar at the top of this thread wrote that "I get emails, every single day" and that "It literally drives me crazy." So what should cdelsolar do? Blame all the humans accidentally deleting their accounts, or find a way to design around it? I know which approach I would take. Let me suggest this book btw: https://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-Understanding-Human-Error/dp/1472439058 https://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-Understanding-Human-Error...
    - lamontcg 3y ago
      > Accident investigations intentionally do not apply blame. Yeah they do and pilot error is very common: > During 2004 in the United States, pilot error was listed as the primary cause of 78.6% of fatal general aviation accidents, and as the primary cause of 75.5% of general aviation accidents overall.[27] For scheduled air transport, pilot error typically accounts for just over half of worldwide accidents with a known cause They can try to address that through training, certification, recertification and updates to manuals and checklists, but at some point some level of human failure is going to be inevitable. And with UI/UX like this there isn't much ability to do that, since people don't get certified on using GitHub. Meanwhile, it is going to be very difficult to break people who are stuck on "autopilot" and just aren't reading anything out of it vi any kinds of dialogs or messages. Gonna delete 8,000,000 stars on this project? Good. Oh wait. Whoops. I'd like to see if the change to the UX to show that information has made any actual measurable impact on the accidental deletion incidents that GH sees. There isn't any good substitute for just learning early that if you are going to delete something you need to stop, think, read and wait a second before hitting that button. Trying to fashion a world where people can navigate it successfully on completely thoughtless autopilot all the time isn't possible. Also, that blog post is irritating because "Lesson #1" should have been for the author to STOP AND THINK when deleting or presented with a scary modal dialog box that actions were going to be permanent. My reading of that blog post is that the author didn't actually accept any blame, didn't see any need to change any of their behavior and shifted it all onto GH. It is equivalent to a non-apology-apology.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
  I'm a professional developer and all that, I recently accidentally formatted my phone (and screamed to my stupidity). In twrp there is a "wipe" section that's used to well, wipe the phone, or optionally wipe the cache. I went in sure it was to wipe the cache, it clearly stated it would erase stuff, i still did. Sometimes the brain just farts.

js2 3y ago

Discussion on that blog post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31033758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31033758 Expecting humans to change will lead to frustration. Humans won't change. You have to construct your process around the way humans actually behave, not the way you wish they would or think they should. Apply lessons from accident investigations.

scrps 3y ago

I think for big orgs there could be a two-man rule system like they use in minuteman missile control, two designated members have to both agree to delete a repo or anything seriously irreversible.

gowld 3y ago

GitHub is stupid. Deletion about go into quarantine for 30days before purging.