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Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada, considers Canada a postnational state. He'd open the borders in a heartbeat if it won him the next election and a

Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada, considers Canada a postnational state. He'd open the borders in a heartbeat if it won him the next election and a scary amount of people in Canada would support it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism#In_Canada https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism#In_Canada Thankfully our country hasn't devolved to that point yet.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Devolved? Did people forget most Canadians are or are related to to immigrants / colonists? Moving into a country then closing the door behind you is a dick move. I mean moving into it and claiming it as your own territoriy (colonization) and displacing the original population is a dick move too. But colonization is not the same as immigration or refugeeism.
- evandale 3y ago
  The same can be said for most of the entire world. That still doesn't make turning your country into a postnational state a good decision. I'm still of the opinion that making Canada a post national state would be devolving the country even though I already know what you pointed out.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    > The same can be said for most of the entire world. No, it can't be. Certainly not to the degree that holds for the US and Canada.
    - evandale 3y ago
      I don't want to argue about this or fact check it but I still don't think that matters or changes my mind even if it's true. Turning Canada into a postnational state would still be a terrible decision despite that fact. I still don't want my country to devolve into that.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Like with most of these things 'fear' is a powerful button. But ask yourself this: from the position of a native Canadian you're the intruder (by proxy), and yet you are empowered to decide who should or should not be allowed to enter one of the largest countries in the world, with a population density approaching zero. I've lived in Canada for a relatively long time, the amount of overt racism and the amount of xenophobia are off the scale. I have a hard time reconciling that with the immigrant background of the average Canadian and think that if it was good enough for your (great) grandparents to displace the natives then it probably should be good enough for you to take a (minor) degree of mental discomfort if it helps refugees and others that have an actual need. And if you feel that that is too much of a step for your society to make then that's sad because it says that your ancestors did not manage to pass on their life's experience to a degree that you can benefit from it. Less than two generations ago my grandparents were refugees, driven - on foot - with their children from the home they lived in to walk across the frozen country side. They were taken in by farmers who definitely did not have food to spare. But they did it anyway, and at a considerable price to their own well-being and health they helped these complete strangers through the toughest part of World War II for that region (the area around Arnhem, well known for operation Market Garden and shown in some detail in the movie 'A bridge too far'. Refugees and other displaced people are welcome where I live, I'll be happy to pay more taxes if that's what it takes and I realize that with the housing shortage it means that my kids will likely not have a place to move to when they are of the age that they would normally do so. But my grandparents did manage to pass on the lessons learned from those times.
        evandale 3y ago
        I still don't see how any of this matters to me? Are you reading what I'm writing or more interested in lecturing somebody today? You keep bringing up arguments I've already said will not sway me. I don't care that my ancestors were colonizers because it wasn't me. I don't care if you call me an invader because, again, it wasn't me. I'm not interested in giving any land back to anyone or allowing anyone into the country with no checks and balances because of something that happened 100s of years ago. And yes, I'm aware of the residential schools, but no, our government being shitty still doesn't make me desire turning Canada into a postnational state. Because it wasn't me! My ancestors are not me and I'm not interested in carrying weight on my shoulders for things other people have done.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Devolved? Did people forget most Canadians are or are related to to immigrants / colonists? Moving into a country then closing the door behind you is a dick move. I mean moving into it and claiming it as your own territoriy (colonization) and displacing the original population is a dick move too. But colonization is not the same as immigration or refugeeism.

evandale 3y ago
The same can be said for most of the entire world. That still doesn't make turning your country into a postnational state a good decision. I'm still of the opinion that making Canada a post national state would be devolving the country even though I already know what you pointed out.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > The same can be said for most of the entire world. No, it can't be. Certainly not to the degree that holds for the US and Canada.
  - evandale 3y ago
    I don't want to argue about this or fact check it but I still don't think that matters or changes my mind even if it's true. Turning Canada into a postnational state would still be a terrible decision despite that fact. I still don't want my country to devolve into that.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Like with most of these things 'fear' is a powerful button. But ask yourself this: from the position of a native Canadian you're the intruder (by proxy), and yet you are empowered to decide who should or should not be allowed to enter one of the largest countries in the world, with a population density approaching zero. I've lived in Canada for a relatively long time, the amount of overt racism and the amount of xenophobia are off the scale. I have a hard time reconciling that with the immigrant background of the average Canadian and think that if it was good enough for your (great) grandparents to displace the natives then it probably should be good enough for you to take a (minor) degree of mental discomfort if it helps refugees and others that have an actual need. And if you feel that that is too much of a step for your society to make then that's sad because it says that your ancestors did not manage to pass on their life's experience to a degree that you can benefit from it. Less than two generations ago my grandparents were refugees, driven - on foot - with their children from the home they lived in to walk across the frozen country side. They were taken in by farmers who definitely did not have food to spare. But they did it anyway, and at a considerable price to their own well-being and health they helped these complete strangers through the toughest part of World War II for that region (the area around Arnhem, well known for operation Market Garden and shown in some detail in the movie 'A bridge too far'. Refugees and other displaced people are welcome where I live, I'll be happy to pay more taxes if that's what it takes and I realize that with the housing shortage it means that my kids will likely not have a place to move to when they are of the age that they would normally do so. But my grandparents did manage to pass on the lessons learned from those times.
      - evandale 3y ago
        I still don't see how any of this matters to me? Are you reading what I'm writing or more interested in lecturing somebody today? You keep bringing up arguments I've already said will not sway me. I don't care that my ancestors were colonizers because it wasn't me. I don't care if you call me an invader because, again, it wasn't me. I'm not interested in giving any land back to anyone or allowing anyone into the country with no checks and balances because of something that happened 100s of years ago. And yes, I'm aware of the residential schools, but no, our government being shitty still doesn't make me desire turning Canada into a postnational state. Because it wasn't me! My ancestors are not me and I'm not interested in carrying weight on my shoulders for things other people have done.