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> Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. Sure: https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Laptop-Memory-Windows/

> Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. Sure: https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Laptop-Memory-Windows/dp/B08HLD598L https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Laptop-Memory-Windows/... > Apple has in fact publicly resisted repeated attempts from state and federal authorities to have it insert backdoors into iOS They have also in fact been part of NSA surveillance programs for over a decade. It's nice that Android gets out ahead of these things by offering pure Open Source images. 1. Can you explain to me why "the marketers" are adopting the same strategy for Vision Pro's launch as they have for every other flagship Apple launch in the last decade? Because lying works! 2. Can you explain why a company with an estimated NPS in range(+65,+80) even _needs_ the best marketers in the world? Why wouldn't they? They're the largest company in the world, forced to compete in one of the most competitive advertising markets in the world. Publishing things that keeps those customers happy takes work, and Apple clearly does lots of "work" in that sense. 3. Can you explain why you seem to believe that it is the job of Apple's marketing team to "normalise" something ex post facto? Isn't it a well understood axiom of Apple's philosophy that until the technology is mature (in this case: thin / light) enough to create a resonant user experience, they will not enter a market? Well, that's kinda what they did with the iPhone and the Apple Watch and even the iPad: https://youtu.be/3S5BLs51yDQ https://youtu.be/3S5BLs51yDQ I don't know what their end-goal is, but they seem to be perfectly aware that Apple products are not 'the norm' in many places. 4. Can you find me that mythical laptop computer to compete with MacBook Air? See above. There are hundreds but anything with a Ryzen 5 or 7 from 2019-onward should smoke the M1, if only for lacking a big.LITTLE core architecture. Beating the M1 in CPU or GPU performance is... not difficult. Beating it's idle draw will be what people struggle with. 5. Can you see a trend looking back at the top 3 smartphones in Consumer Reports' surveys over the last decade? Not when I look at the global chart, no.

georgespencer 3y ago
I'm happy to get into the subjective stuff you've outlined, although you're not OP, but before I do, can I just make sure you're clear on what I'm asking for on the laptop thing? I said: > look at the single core performance, battery life, and screen quality of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. 1. Single core performance It looks like the M1 which shipped in the 13" MacBook Air massively outperforms the AMD Ryzen 5 3500U[^1] on Geekbench 5 single core: 1710 vs. 707. Am I missing something? 2. Battery life Here's a comparison[^2] of the M1 MacBook Air with the laptop you referred to from the same publication. The M1 MacBook Air scored >29hrs on the battery rundown test: "It ran for 29 hours and 1 minute on our battery rundown test, producing one of the longest results we’ve ever recorded." The Ideapad was about 1/3rd of that at 8hrs: "Eight and a half hours away from a wall outlet isn't bad…" Am I missing something? 3. Screen quality The same reviews refer to the Ideapad having a "mediocre" screen. It's 1920x1080, but the resolution is only 142ppi. The M1 MacBook Air is higher resolution and higher PPI (227) and 13" not 15". The disparity in quality between them almost couldn't be starker. Am I missing something? Happy to talk to someone who can at least try to offer substantiation for their perspectives, but it feels like we're missing each other on this. [^1]: https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-5-3500u-vs-apple-m1/geekbench5-single https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-5-3500u-vs-apple-m1/geekbenc... [^2]: https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/lenovo-ideapad-3-15-2021 https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/lenovo-ideapad-3-15-2021, https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/apple-macbook-air-m1-late-2020 https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/apple-macbook-air-m1-late-2020
- smoldesu 3y ago
  > It looks like the M1 which shipped in the 13" MacBook Air massively outperforms the AMD Ryzen 5 3500U[^1] on Geekbench 5 single core: 1710 vs. 707. > Am I missing something? Yes, a fair fight. Pick a laptop with the same core count as M1 and preferably another 5nm laptop chip for a truly "fair" comparison. Like the 5800u, if you fancy. Or ignore that and continue to insist faster and cheaper laptops don't exist. > The M1 MacBook Air scored >29hrs on the battery rundown test > Am I missing something? Presumably the part in any of my previous comment where I mentioned battery life. > The same reviews refer to the Ideapad having a "mediocre" screen. > Am I missing something? It's a $400 laptop and your only critera was that it had to be faster and cheaper. If you actually wanted to talk about displays then yes, your original comment was missing some key details. I wouldn't be surprised if your next reach was to claim MacOS is an "infinite value add" and end our comparison on that basis alone.
  - georgespencer 3y ago
    I think one of us is confused! My original ask of OP was this: > 2) look at the single core performance, battery life, and screen quality of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. My point is not that there are NO faster or cheaper laptops than MacBook Air, but that at this price point, it's very difficult (impossible?) to find comparable processor performance, battery life, and screen quality. You offered a laptop which doesn't seem to be commensurate on any of those aspects. I think it's possibly because you didn't read the full comment? > Or ignore that and continue to insist faster and cheaper laptops don't exist. Hopefully the above clears up what I'm driving at. Faster laptops definitely exist. Cheaper laptops definitely exist. > It's a $400 laptop and your only critera was that it had to be faster and cheaper. No, that is not what I said. I referred to the MacBook Air "test" twice: > > 2) look at the single core performance, battery life, and screen quality of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. This might be unclear to you. I am saying: look at [processor performance, battery performance, screen performance] of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance [to those aspects][ at the same price point. I went on to refer back to this later on: > 4. Can you find me that mythical laptop computer to compete with MacBook Air? I did not set the condition that it be cheaper. I did not constrain performance to JUST the processor speed. > If you actually wanted to talk about displays then yes, your original comment was missing some key details. Is there something beyond me specifically referring to the "screen quality" that would have been helpful to your understanding? > I wouldn't be surprised if your next reach was to claim MacOS is an "infinite value add" and end our comparison on that basis alone. You're engaging in a lot of quite pointed speculation about my integrity in this discussion. Did you read what I said to OP? If so, can you help everyone understand why you think I don't care about the list of parameters I enumerated and am somehow moving the goalposts by assessing your example by the criteria I feel like I originally expressed?

georgespencer 3y ago

I'm happy to get into the subjective stuff you've outlined, although you're not OP, but before I do, can I just make sure you're clear on what I'm asking for on the laptop thing? I said: > look at the single core performance, battery life, and screen quality of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. 1. Single core performance It looks like the M1 which shipped in the 13" MacBook Air massively outperforms the AMD Ryzen 5 3500U[^1] on Geekbench 5 single core: 1710 vs. 707. Am I missing something? 2. Battery life Here's a comparison[^2] of the M1 MacBook Air with the laptop you referred to from the same publication. The M1 MacBook Air scored >29hrs on the battery rundown test: "It ran for 29 hours and 1 minute on our battery rundown test, producing one of the longest results we’ve ever recorded." The Ideapad was about 1/3rd of that at 8hrs: "Eight and a half hours away from a wall outlet isn't bad…" Am I missing something? 3. Screen quality The same reviews refer to the Ideapad having a "mediocre" screen. It's 1920x1080, but the resolution is only 142ppi. The M1 MacBook Air is higher resolution and higher PPI (227) and 13" not 15". The disparity in quality between them almost couldn't be starker. Am I missing something? Happy to talk to someone who can at least try to offer substantiation for their perspectives, but it feels like we're missing each other on this. [^1]: https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-5-3500u-vs-apple-m1/geekbench5-single https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-5-3500u-vs-apple-m1/geekbenc... [^2]: https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/lenovo-ideapad-3-15-2021 https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/lenovo-ideapad-3-15-2021, https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/apple-macbook-air-m1-late-2020 https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/apple-macbook-air-m1-late-2020

smoldesu 3y ago
> It looks like the M1 which shipped in the 13" MacBook Air massively outperforms the AMD Ryzen 5 3500U[^1] on Geekbench 5 single core: 1710 vs. 707. > Am I missing something? Yes, a fair fight. Pick a laptop with the same core count as M1 and preferably another 5nm laptop chip for a truly "fair" comparison. Like the 5800u, if you fancy. Or ignore that and continue to insist faster and cheaper laptops don't exist. > The M1 MacBook Air scored >29hrs on the battery rundown test > Am I missing something? Presumably the part in any of my previous comment where I mentioned battery life. > The same reviews refer to the Ideapad having a "mediocre" screen. > Am I missing something? It's a $400 laptop and your only critera was that it had to be faster and cheaper. If you actually wanted to talk about displays then yes, your original comment was missing some key details. I wouldn't be surprised if your next reach was to claim MacOS is an "infinite value add" and end our comparison on that basis alone.
- georgespencer 3y ago
  I think one of us is confused! My original ask of OP was this: > 2) look at the single core performance, battery life, and screen quality of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. My point is not that there are NO faster or cheaper laptops than MacBook Air, but that at this price point, it's very difficult (impossible?) to find comparable processor performance, battery life, and screen quality. You offered a laptop which doesn't seem to be commensurate on any of those aspects. I think it's possibly because you didn't read the full comment? > Or ignore that and continue to insist faster and cheaper laptops don't exist. Hopefully the above clears up what I'm driving at. Faster laptops definitely exist. Cheaper laptops definitely exist. > It's a $400 laptop and your only critera was that it had to be faster and cheaper. No, that is not what I said. I referred to the MacBook Air "test" twice: > > 2) look at the single core performance, battery life, and screen quality of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. This might be unclear to you. I am saying: look at [processor performance, battery performance, screen performance] of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance [to those aspects][ at the same price point. I went on to refer back to this later on: > 4. Can you find me that mythical laptop computer to compete with MacBook Air? I did not set the condition that it be cheaper. I did not constrain performance to JUST the processor speed. > If you actually wanted to talk about displays then yes, your original comment was missing some key details. Is there something beyond me specifically referring to the "screen quality" that would have been helpful to your understanding? > I wouldn't be surprised if your next reach was to claim MacOS is an "infinite value add" and end our comparison on that basis alone. You're engaging in a lot of quite pointed speculation about my integrity in this discussion. Did you read what I said to OP? If so, can you help everyone understand why you think I don't care about the list of parameters I enumerated and am somehow moving the goalposts by assessing your example by the criteria I feel like I originally expressed?