7 ms·

Who is calling for wide open borders?

by HappySweeney 3y ago

mastax 3y ago
I am!
- leaveyou 3y ago
  Why ? You feel alone ?
  - mcv 3y ago
    I'm not mastax, but I personally think borders are stupid and we shouldn't be locking people into the place they were born. I want us to move beyond such feudal ideas. Of course I also understand that unrestrained migration right now would cause massive problems. The real problem here is not the migration itself, but what's causing it. Most people (apart from some adventurous souls) don't normally want to leave the place they were born and where their family lives, except when driven to leave by circumstances, whether those circumstances are poverty, civil war or climate change. If we have a problem with migration, we should do more to address the causes of migration. And not create more causes for migration.
    - leaveyou 3y ago
      >>we should do more to address the causes of migration In my opinion not even God himself (if he exists) can address the causes of migration unless He changes the natural rules overnight. The idea that you and me or even Elon Musk + Bill Gates can actually do something to address the actual causes of migration sounds very naive, horribly naive, and please don't take it as an offense. Lets say for a moment that there is a miracle and "we" fix the poverty and the climate in the world tomorrow. How long do you think will that last ? 20-30 years until the world population doubles again ? What do you do then when this overpopulation combined with the corresponding consumption and pollution brings us back to the current situation ? Will you invite "us" all again to fix everything back ? How are "we" going to fix this situation ? By working each of us overtime or what ?
      - mcv 3y ago
        The world population is unlikely to double again. In fact, a lot of countries have shrinking populations. And you know what reduces both population growth and poverty? Education. I strongly disagree with your defeatism. We have the ability to solve problems, and we have done so in the past. We could do so again. The only thing we lack is the political will.
        leaveyou 3y ago
        Good intentions and high hopes are worth close to 0. IMHO at least one of us is badly disconnected from reality. In my part of the world "we" fail to educate our kids worse than ever, how on earth are "we" gonna educate the rest 3-4 billion people.. "Somebody do something !!!"
        mcv 3y ago
        I disagree. Good intentions would help a lot. The problem is that in some areas, people with bad intentions dominate. However, my purpose was initially to point out the possibility. The possibility is there. The next step is what we do with it. If you start out by giving up, you're never going to get anywhere. That's your disconnect.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > IMHO at least one of us is badly disconnected from reality. I agree with you there but probably don't agree with you on who that is. Good intentions are a start, and are worth a lot more than bad intentions, apathy and defeatism. 'Somebody do something' is much better than 'don't threaten my lifestyle'. Better still is 'I will do something'.
        leaveyou 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dang 3y ago
evandale 3y ago
Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada, considers Canada a postnational state. He'd open the borders in a heartbeat if it won him the next election and a scary amount of people in Canada would support it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism#In_Canada https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism#In_Canada Thankfully our country hasn't devolved to that point yet.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Devolved? Did people forget most Canadians are or are related to to immigrants / colonists? Moving into a country then closing the door behind you is a dick move. I mean moving into it and claiming it as your own territoriy (colonization) and displacing the original population is a dick move too. But colonization is not the same as immigration or refugeeism.
  - evandale 3y ago
    The same can be said for most of the entire world. That still doesn't make turning your country into a postnational state a good decision. I'm still of the opinion that making Canada a post national state would be devolving the country even though I already know what you pointed out.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      > The same can be said for most of the entire world. No, it can't be. Certainly not to the degree that holds for the US and Canada.
      - evandale 3y ago
        I don't want to argue about this or fact check it but I still don't think that matters or changes my mind even if it's true. Turning Canada into a postnational state would still be a terrible decision despite that fact. I still don't want my country to devolve into that.

Who is calling for wide open borders?

mastax 3y ago

I am!

leaveyou 3y ago
Why ? You feel alone ?
- mcv 3y ago
  I'm not mastax, but I personally think borders are stupid and we shouldn't be locking people into the place they were born. I want us to move beyond such feudal ideas. Of course I also understand that unrestrained migration right now would cause massive problems. The real problem here is not the migration itself, but what's causing it. Most people (apart from some adventurous souls) don't normally want to leave the place they were born and where their family lives, except when driven to leave by circumstances, whether those circumstances are poverty, civil war or climate change. If we have a problem with migration, we should do more to address the causes of migration. And not create more causes for migration.
  - leaveyou 3y ago
    >>we should do more to address the causes of migration In my opinion not even God himself (if he exists) can address the causes of migration unless He changes the natural rules overnight. The idea that you and me or even Elon Musk + Bill Gates can actually do something to address the actual causes of migration sounds very naive, horribly naive, and please don't take it as an offense. Lets say for a moment that there is a miracle and "we" fix the poverty and the climate in the world tomorrow. How long do you think will that last ? 20-30 years until the world population doubles again ? What do you do then when this overpopulation combined with the corresponding consumption and pollution brings us back to the current situation ? Will you invite "us" all again to fix everything back ? How are "we" going to fix this situation ? By working each of us overtime or what ?
    - mcv 3y ago
      The world population is unlikely to double again. In fact, a lot of countries have shrinking populations. And you know what reduces both population growth and poverty? Education. I strongly disagree with your defeatism. We have the ability to solve problems, and we have done so in the past. We could do so again. The only thing we lack is the political will.
      - leaveyou 3y ago
        Good intentions and high hopes are worth close to 0. IMHO at least one of us is badly disconnected from reality. In my part of the world "we" fail to educate our kids worse than ever, how on earth are "we" gonna educate the rest 3-4 billion people.. "Somebody do something !!!"
        mcv 3y ago
        I disagree. Good intentions would help a lot. The problem is that in some areas, people with bad intentions dominate. However, my purpose was initially to point out the possibility. The possibility is there. The next step is what we do with it. If you start out by giving up, you're never going to get anywhere. That's your disconnect.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > IMHO at least one of us is badly disconnected from reality. I agree with you there but probably don't agree with you on who that is. Good intentions are a start, and are worth a lot more than bad intentions, apathy and defeatism. 'Somebody do something' is much better than 'don't threaten my lifestyle'. Better still is 'I will do something'.
        leaveyou 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dang 3y ago

evandale 3y ago

Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada, considers Canada a postnational state. He'd open the borders in a heartbeat if it won him the next election and a scary amount of people in Canada would support it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism#In_Canada https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism#In_Canada Thankfully our country hasn't devolved to that point yet.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Devolved? Did people forget most Canadians are or are related to to immigrants / colonists? Moving into a country then closing the door behind you is a dick move. I mean moving into it and claiming it as your own territoriy (colonization) and displacing the original population is a dick move too. But colonization is not the same as immigration or refugeeism.
- evandale 3y ago
  The same can be said for most of the entire world. That still doesn't make turning your country into a postnational state a good decision. I'm still of the opinion that making Canada a post national state would be devolving the country even though I already know what you pointed out.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    > The same can be said for most of the entire world. No, it can't be. Certainly not to the degree that holds for the US and Canada.
    - evandale 3y ago
      I don't want to argue about this or fact check it but I still don't think that matters or changes my mind even if it's true. Turning Canada into a postnational state would still be a terrible decision despite that fact. I still don't want my country to devolve into that.