5 ms·

The problem that will occur, and will prevent producing things, is that at some point finding parts and people able to repair those will be hard or impossible.

The problem that will occur, and will prevent producing things, is that at some point finding parts and people able to repair those will be hard or impossible. I'm not saying that having latest or newest stuff is any better, just that using old stuff can bring some problems too.

masswerk 3y ago
The Z80 and most of the 47xx logic chips are still manufactured, though. (Small RAM and ROM chips may become a problem, in the near future.)
- fennecfoxy 3y ago
  But then even if you have a small time electrical repair peep come in and pop a chip from a socket and drop in a replacement, what do you do if it still doesn't work anymore? In that scenario you need to find someone completely familiar with the old model of computer to break out the multimeter and oscilloscope. That's gonna be a huge pain. And in the meantime none of their stuff works, though I suppose they can rest on the existing library of punch cards they most certainly have. Or do it manually again.
  - masswerk 3y ago
    Even in the worst of cases, these were popular machines and you can buy one at ebay.jp about anytime. It probably becomes much more of a problem with hardware closer in time. E.g., it's a 486 machine, the network is probably ARCNET, because industrial, where do you get any hardware that fits in? (Contrary to its 486 siblings, the 8-bit machines are still around, because they were cultural significant, and there are folks playing around with them and preserving the knowledge of keeping them running. Finding the maintenance manual for a late 1970s machine is easy as compared to finding one for a, let's say, 2001 run-off-the-mill computer.) Also, you'll be re-entering any data there is, things will probably get lost, because the project stalls. Meanwhile, while you are re-planning, selecting the new hardware, comissioning an external team to furnish the new software, eventually test it and roll it out, any production connected to this is on halt…
Eisenstein 3y ago
This isn't the only place using such equipment, and as long as there is a profit to be made someone will supply the parts. The only components that can't sit forever on a shelf as NOS are (off the top of my head) capacitors and production of those isn't going anywhere. For non-electronic parts: that's why you have a machine shop.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  I used to freelance HW/Firmware development for a small company that retrofitted old machine tools with modern motion controllers. There is a surprisingly large industry out there ready to repair or retrofit whatever old controls are on your old machines.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  As long as they haven't been sitting on the shelf since the 1950s, any capacitors you have lying around will be fine. The electrolyte isn't milk. It doesn't go off.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    It does dry out though. Electrolytic can caps are not hermetically sealed.
    - Gordonjcp 3y ago
      Over about 50 years, maybe. Put it this way, I've replaced maybe a dozen "bad caps" in equipment in 35 years of repairing high-end musical kit, six of which were in one 1970s synthesizer made from very cheap parts. But, I've done very well out of the fashion for "re-capping" equipment because I charge 300 quid before I even start to consider clearing a spot on the bench for stuff that's been "re-capped" before they bring it to me to fix.
      - Eisenstein 3y ago
        Yes, I am aware of the re-capping nonsense. I was noting that caps do not live forever. > The only components that can't sit forever on a shelf
JohnFen 3y ago
> at some point finding parts and people able to repair those will be hard or impossible. Maybe, maybe not. If the machine uses the right "legacy" parts (a Z80 is a great example, but so is anything belt- or gear-driven, etc.), then it's a very good bet those parts and the people who are familiar with them will remain available for much longer than you or I will be alive.

masswerk 3y ago

The Z80 and most of the 47xx logic chips are still manufactured, though. (Small RAM and ROM chips may become a problem, in the near future.)

fennecfoxy 3y ago
But then even if you have a small time electrical repair peep come in and pop a chip from a socket and drop in a replacement, what do you do if it still doesn't work anymore? In that scenario you need to find someone completely familiar with the old model of computer to break out the multimeter and oscilloscope. That's gonna be a huge pain. And in the meantime none of their stuff works, though I suppose they can rest on the existing library of punch cards they most certainly have. Or do it manually again.
- masswerk 3y ago
  Even in the worst of cases, these were popular machines and you can buy one at ebay.jp about anytime. It probably becomes much more of a problem with hardware closer in time. E.g., it's a 486 machine, the network is probably ARCNET, because industrial, where do you get any hardware that fits in? (Contrary to its 486 siblings, the 8-bit machines are still around, because they were cultural significant, and there are folks playing around with them and preserving the knowledge of keeping them running. Finding the maintenance manual for a late 1970s machine is easy as compared to finding one for a, let's say, 2001 run-off-the-mill computer.) Also, you'll be re-entering any data there is, things will probably get lost, because the project stalls. Meanwhile, while you are re-planning, selecting the new hardware, comissioning an external team to furnish the new software, eventually test it and roll it out, any production connected to this is on halt…

Eisenstein 3y ago

This isn't the only place using such equipment, and as long as there is a profit to be made someone will supply the parts. The only components that can't sit forever on a shelf as NOS are (off the top of my head) capacitors and production of those isn't going anywhere. For non-electronic parts: that's why you have a machine shop.

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
I used to freelance HW/Firmware development for a small company that retrofitted old machine tools with modern motion controllers. There is a surprisingly large industry out there ready to repair or retrofit whatever old controls are on your old machines.
Gordonjcp 3y ago
As long as they haven't been sitting on the shelf since the 1950s, any capacitors you have lying around will be fine. The electrolyte isn't milk. It doesn't go off.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  It does dry out though. Electrolytic can caps are not hermetically sealed.
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    Over about 50 years, maybe. Put it this way, I've replaced maybe a dozen "bad caps" in equipment in 35 years of repairing high-end musical kit, six of which were in one 1970s synthesizer made from very cheap parts. But, I've done very well out of the fashion for "re-capping" equipment because I charge 300 quid before I even start to consider clearing a spot on the bench for stuff that's been "re-capped" before they bring it to me to fix.
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      Yes, I am aware of the re-capping nonsense. I was noting that caps do not live forever. > The only components that can't sit forever on a shelf

JohnFen 3y ago

> at some point finding parts and people able to repair those will be hard or impossible. Maybe, maybe not. If the machine uses the right "legacy" parts (a Z80 is a great example, but so is anything belt- or gear-driven, etc.), then it's a very good bet those parts and the people who are familiar with them will remain available for much longer than you or I will be alive.