3 ms·

Ad hominem. Having senior dev / "architect" focusing on higher level / abstract design and working with junior dev to code it and get it up and running is a ve

by maeln 3y ago

Ad hominem. Having senior dev / "architect" focusing on higher level / abstract design and working with junior dev to code it and get it up and running is a very common pattern in big company (especially not tech-first company). And it does work.

uztrax 3y ago
[dead]
bombolo 3y ago
> Ad hominem. No? It applies to anyone having the same opinion.
- maeln 3y ago
  In truth, it is more a ad personam argument. You are not contributing anything substantial to the debate, you are just attacking dumpster_fire with no other argument than "in my experience".
  - bombolo 3y ago
    I believe that actual experience is superior to logical reasoning with little or no data to support it.
    - maeln 3y ago
      The only data you provide is "your experience" which is of little value here considering we don't know the extent of it nor its relevance. If anything, the way you express your opinion so strongly, one would hesitate to think that you have any experience in a big corporation with several teams working on different product and/or part of the same product. The context in which having senior dev focus less on coding and more on reviews, documentation and design is common place.
      - bombolo 3y ago
        We have the data that dumpster_fire thinks anyone can do coding, which tells us he's not well versed with it. From there, by experience, people who aren't good juniors aren't good seniors. Good juniors might never become good seniors, but bad juniors won't be good seniors. I don't see what my life history has to do with anything, when we have all the information right here :)
        toiletduck 3y ago
        Context is key here, but as a thought experiment- the most profitable businesses can hire with effectively no limit if they choose. FAANG isn't a great proxy for that but it'll do - assume their hiring bar is "can produce excellent code". Then what? Do you just allow everyone to heads down code? Principals and staff engineers rarely contribute directly to features because in their org context, with their expected level of staff - code is cheap and easy. Orchestrating decision making is very hard, and aligning technical to product outcomes is hard. How often are these businesses with huge budgets routinely criticised for poor releases? Yet their overall value remains enormous, because their cores are money printers. Being an expert in the domain of writing code is relatively easy. Being a domain expert of your businesses value and the tradeoffs its making is very difficult. Just because people like the writing code part of the job doesn't make it the end game for the most valuable skillset.
        dumpster_fire 3y ago
        What data? I never said anyone can do coding. My spouse sure can't. Code is the easiest part of the job in my company where almost everyone is a genius (sans me). But few enjoy (nor do well with) syncing project goals with other teams. Someone has to do the dirty work while getting dissed by juniors for lack of code. I'm not sure if this experience applies to where you're working at so YMMV. But I must admit that this is karma. For I have had an almost identical take as you more than a decade ago. Feels like I'm looking in a mirror.

by maeln 3y ago

uztrax 3y ago

[dead]

bombolo 3y ago

> Ad hominem. No? It applies to anyone having the same opinion.

maeln 3y ago
In truth, it is more a ad personam argument. You are not contributing anything substantial to the debate, you are just attacking dumpster_fire with no other argument than "in my experience".
- bombolo 3y ago
  I believe that actual experience is superior to logical reasoning with little or no data to support it.
  - maeln 3y ago
    The only data you provide is "your experience" which is of little value here considering we don't know the extent of it nor its relevance. If anything, the way you express your opinion so strongly, one would hesitate to think that you have any experience in a big corporation with several teams working on different product and/or part of the same product. The context in which having senior dev focus less on coding and more on reviews, documentation and design is common place.
    - bombolo 3y ago
      We have the data that dumpster_fire thinks anyone can do coding, which tells us he's not well versed with it. From there, by experience, people who aren't good juniors aren't good seniors. Good juniors might never become good seniors, but bad juniors won't be good seniors. I don't see what my life history has to do with anything, when we have all the information right here :)
      - toiletduck 3y ago
        Context is key here, but as a thought experiment- the most profitable businesses can hire with effectively no limit if they choose. FAANG isn't a great proxy for that but it'll do - assume their hiring bar is "can produce excellent code". Then what? Do you just allow everyone to heads down code? Principals and staff engineers rarely contribute directly to features because in their org context, with their expected level of staff - code is cheap and easy. Orchestrating decision making is very hard, and aligning technical to product outcomes is hard. How often are these businesses with huge budgets routinely criticised for poor releases? Yet their overall value remains enormous, because their cores are money printers. Being an expert in the domain of writing code is relatively easy. Being a domain expert of your businesses value and the tradeoffs its making is very difficult. Just because people like the writing code part of the job doesn't make it the end game for the most valuable skillset.
      - dumpster_fire 3y ago
        What data? I never said anyone can do coding. My spouse sure can't. Code is the easiest part of the job in my company where almost everyone is a genius (sans me). But few enjoy (nor do well with) syncing project goals with other teams. Someone has to do the dirty work while getting dissed by juniors for lack of code. I'm not sure if this experience applies to where you're working at so YMMV. But I must admit that this is karma. For I have had an almost identical take as you more than a decade ago. Feels like I'm looking in a mirror.