4 ms·

>if you offend the wrong people then you'll be cut off the internet. Disingenuous hot take. People tolerate the offensive. I’m tolerating you right now. https

>if you offend the wrong people then you'll be cut off the internet. Disingenuous hot take. People tolerate the offensive. I’m tolerating you right now. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sites/kiwi-farms https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sites/kiwi-farms Kiwi farms was a haven for degenerate anti social wanna be mass murderer. No sane business wants that association. No one is silencing these people, they are being lawfully discriminated against (refused service) for their reprehensible behavior. That’s freedom of association in action. The laws prohibiting the government from acting against someone for their words do not apply to the individual. In other words, tolerance only extends insofar as the infringers intolerance can be tolerated without relinquishing inalienable rights. Off topic, but kiwi farms is a weird hill to plant a flag in on this topic.

lmm 3y ago
> No one is silencing these people, they are being lawfully discriminated against (refused service) for their reprehensible behavior. They're not just being refused service by hosting companies or the like, ISPs are not routing to them. That's new, and that's what I think is worth "planting a flag" about; it's not a newspaper refusing to print your articles, it's the post office refusing to ship your newspaper. If that's not being silenced then I don't know what is.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  Additionally, for a time the SSL Certificate Authority in Greece was threatening to remove their https:// https:// certificate for “unspecified violations of some clause.” Said clause being, “specifically”, clause 3.1 of HARICA Subscriber Agreement. Which can be read here: https://repo.harica.gr/documents/SA-ToU_EN.pdf https://repo.harica.gr/documents/SA-ToU_EN.pdf
- hexage1814 3y ago
  Agree with you. They are still on TOR, and currently they are back up on sneed.today (not sure why the old domain didn't come back yet?). The site seems to be hosted (I guess?) by TerraHost, a Norwegian company which is owned by the american company Epik, and which refuses censorship. I assume the people wanting to take kiwifarms down will have to go to the upstream providers of Terrahost, since they won't bend the knee. https://bgp.tools/dns/sneed.today https://bgp.tools/dns/sneed.today The fact that they're using Terrahost as a provider isn't new, but the difference here, I guess, is that now they are using an IP owned by TerraHost rather their Null IP/ASN connecting to TerraHost and then to upstream providers such as GTT, and so on... https://bgp.tools/dns/kiwifarms.net https://bgp.tools/dns/kiwifarms.net Not sure what difference this makes, and I'm too much of a noob to understand what is going on exactly, so I might be talking bullshit here. But it seems to be working. Be that as it may, NGOs and institutions who defend the free internet should be opposing the censorship of kiwifarms, but they aren't because everybody knows that most of these institutions have an ideological bias...
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
    >institutions who defend the free internet should be opposing the censorship of kiwifarms This argument is unsupported by your comment. What value does kf create? Far as I can tell it only destroys value with their trail of suicides and bigoted behavior.
    - lmm 3y ago
      > What value does kf create? Far as I can tell it only destroys value with their trail of suicides and bigoted behavior. Even if that were true (and I don't think it is), freedom only for those who "create value" is no freedom at all.
      - Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
        You obviously didn’t read the article I cited substantiating this fact.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
  >ISPs are not routing to them Distinction without a material difference. This is only slightly to mail delivery services refusing delivery to homes with aggressive animals. In this case it’s telecom operators not enabling violent criminals that could create liability if left unaddressed.
tourmalinetaco 3y ago
> Kiwi farms was a haven for degenerate anti social wanna be mass murderer. No it wasn’t. Both in life and in death William Atchison was made fun of by the members of multiple communities, gaining the posthumous nickname “Couch Cuck”. A “haven” for murderers would not obsessively archive information relating to murderers, such as social medias (which consistently delete the information to avoid being associated), prior convictions, etc with the intent to study and publicly shame them. One can argue of the efficacy of this, but it is no different than what MSM does. In fact, KiwiFarms can be attributed to the destruction of a CP/animal torture ring and multiple arrests, due to their archival efforts and Internet sleuthing. Additionally, on the topic of “reprehensible behavior”, companies like CloudFlare happily accept money from animal abuse websites. And under every metric KiwiFarms is legal under US law. So while companies are legally allowed to disassociate for almost any reason, we have to ask why illegal websites remain while legal ones are disassociated. And considering CloudFlare initially sided with KiwiFarms, it truly is not as clear cut as “they found the content disagreeable”. On topic to your off topic, I was definitely not expecting KiwiFarms to mentioned either.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
  I don’t think you are aware of the depth of depravity users of kf engaged in, regularly. I said wanna be murderers, you know, the weird kids with poor social skills that probably have shit home lives and get bullied/ostracized harshly. When they find community on these boards they also find recruiters for all sorts of awful communities from neo nazis to pedophiles to whatever. >A “haven” for murderers would not obsessively archive information relating to murderers, such as social medias (which consistently delete the information to avoid being associated), prior convictions, etc with the intent to study and publicly shame them. This is not logical. Many murderers study infamous murder cases to learn how to be better murderers. For some it may merely be a morbid curiosity, for others, it’s research. You cannot discern the intentions from the comments, but rather the outcomes, which speaks voluminously; if you’d bother to look for the reports on this. >KiwiFarms can be attributed to the destruction of a CP/animal torture ring and multiple arrests, due to their archival efforts and Internet sleuthing. And 4chan got a terrorist training camp bombed. And Reddit got an innocent killed during the hunt for the Boston bomber. These are not examples of uniformly good character, even the worst criminals have soft spots. Nazis made some wondrous technology, should we forgive their attempted genocides and eugenics? Re cloud flare, I support shaming them for this support of bad actors and hurting their bottom line but that is off topic goal post moving.
jstarfish 3y ago
[flagged]
briangol 3y ago
[flagged]

lmm 3y ago

> No one is silencing these people, they are being lawfully discriminated against (refused service) for their reprehensible behavior. They're not just being refused service by hosting companies or the like, ISPs are not routing to them. That's new, and that's what I think is worth "planting a flag" about; it's not a newspaper refusing to print your articles, it's the post office refusing to ship your newspaper. If that's not being silenced then I don't know what is.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
Additionally, for a time the SSL Certificate Authority in Greece was threatening to remove their https:// https:// certificate for “unspecified violations of some clause.” Said clause being, “specifically”, clause 3.1 of HARICA Subscriber Agreement. Which can be read here: https://repo.harica.gr/documents/SA-ToU_EN.pdf https://repo.harica.gr/documents/SA-ToU_EN.pdf
hexage1814 3y ago
Agree with you. They are still on TOR, and currently they are back up on sneed.today (not sure why the old domain didn't come back yet?). The site seems to be hosted (I guess?) by TerraHost, a Norwegian company which is owned by the american company Epik, and which refuses censorship. I assume the people wanting to take kiwifarms down will have to go to the upstream providers of Terrahost, since they won't bend the knee. https://bgp.tools/dns/sneed.today https://bgp.tools/dns/sneed.today The fact that they're using Terrahost as a provider isn't new, but the difference here, I guess, is that now they are using an IP owned by TerraHost rather their Null IP/ASN connecting to TerraHost and then to upstream providers such as GTT, and so on... https://bgp.tools/dns/kiwifarms.net https://bgp.tools/dns/kiwifarms.net Not sure what difference this makes, and I'm too much of a noob to understand what is going on exactly, so I might be talking bullshit here. But it seems to be working. Be that as it may, NGOs and institutions who defend the free internet should be opposing the censorship of kiwifarms, but they aren't because everybody knows that most of these institutions have an ideological bias...
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
  >institutions who defend the free internet should be opposing the censorship of kiwifarms This argument is unsupported by your comment. What value does kf create? Far as I can tell it only destroys value with their trail of suicides and bigoted behavior.
  - lmm 3y ago
    > What value does kf create? Far as I can tell it only destroys value with their trail of suicides and bigoted behavior. Even if that were true (and I don't think it is), freedom only for those who "create value" is no freedom at all.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
      You obviously didn’t read the article I cited substantiating this fact.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
>ISPs are not routing to them Distinction without a material difference. This is only slightly to mail delivery services refusing delivery to homes with aggressive animals. In this case it’s telecom operators not enabling violent criminals that could create liability if left unaddressed.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago

> Kiwi farms was a haven for degenerate anti social wanna be mass murderer. No it wasn’t. Both in life and in death William Atchison was made fun of by the members of multiple communities, gaining the posthumous nickname “Couch Cuck”. A “haven” for murderers would not obsessively archive information relating to murderers, such as social medias (which consistently delete the information to avoid being associated), prior convictions, etc with the intent to study and publicly shame them. One can argue of the efficacy of this, but it is no different than what MSM does. In fact, KiwiFarms can be attributed to the destruction of a CP/animal torture ring and multiple arrests, due to their archival efforts and Internet sleuthing. Additionally, on the topic of “reprehensible behavior”, companies like CloudFlare happily accept money from animal abuse websites. And under every metric KiwiFarms is legal under US law. So while companies are legally allowed to disassociate for almost any reason, we have to ask why illegal websites remain while legal ones are disassociated. And considering CloudFlare initially sided with KiwiFarms, it truly is not as clear cut as “they found the content disagreeable”. On topic to your off topic, I was definitely not expecting KiwiFarms to mentioned either.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
I don’t think you are aware of the depth of depravity users of kf engaged in, regularly. I said wanna be murderers, you know, the weird kids with poor social skills that probably have shit home lives and get bullied/ostracized harshly. When they find community on these boards they also find recruiters for all sorts of awful communities from neo nazis to pedophiles to whatever. >A “haven” for murderers would not obsessively archive information relating to murderers, such as social medias (which consistently delete the information to avoid being associated), prior convictions, etc with the intent to study and publicly shame them. This is not logical. Many murderers study infamous murder cases to learn how to be better murderers. For some it may merely be a morbid curiosity, for others, it’s research. You cannot discern the intentions from the comments, but rather the outcomes, which speaks voluminously; if you’d bother to look for the reports on this. >KiwiFarms can be attributed to the destruction of a CP/animal torture ring and multiple arrests, due to their archival efforts and Internet sleuthing. And 4chan got a terrorist training camp bombed. And Reddit got an innocent killed during the hunt for the Boston bomber. These are not examples of uniformly good character, even the worst criminals have soft spots. Nazis made some wondrous technology, should we forgive their attempted genocides and eugenics? Re cloud flare, I support shaming them for this support of bad actors and hurting their bottom line but that is off topic goal post moving.

jstarfish 3y ago

[flagged]

briangol 3y ago

[flagged]