3 ms·

So does it "make no sense" or is it just "probably not" true? e-EDCs are a known but not yet well studied issue. How can you claim that increased estrogen does

So does it "make no sense" or is it just "probably not" true? e-EDCs are a known but not yet well studied issue. How can you claim that increased estrogen does not have any effect on sexuality? To your point about the lack of feminization in women, I think that just shows your lack of knowledge of endocrinology. Men and women both have estrogen receptors; one aspect of sexual dimorphism in humans, however, is that females produce more estrogen than males. Female estrogen receptors are therefore usually activated while estrogen receptors in men are less activated (to simplify). Increasing estrogen in females whose estrogen receptors are largely already activated will have no effect. In fact, estrogen-like endocrine disrupting chemicals are less potent than say 17β-estradiol. So increased faux estrogen may predict decreased net "femininity," for lack of a better term, in females, as their estrogen receptors are then bound to weaker e-EEDCs, and this is supported by the literature[0]. This is also why soy products may increase breast size in men but not in women. But your conclusion that the whole discussion "makes no sense" is forgone, and not based on an analysis of any data. [0] Colon I, Caro D, Bourdony CJ, Rosario O: Identification of phthalate esters in the serum of young Puerto Rican girls with premature breast development. Environ Health Perspect, 2000; 108: 895–900

0dayz 3y ago
Their reasoning makes no sense, because they assume LGBT = gay men & trans women. The probably not is in reference to PFAS making people LGBT not to people being feminized. Thanks for the very basic explanation of endocrinology, unfortunately it does not support the OPs claim, you're at worst arguing with an invisible post or at best, stating something that doesn't disprove anything in my claim. And I'll reiterate the claim is not that PFAS does not feminized people, the claim is that if we were to see it affecting our sexuality, SPECIFICALLY making us move from being straight to LGBT then we should see be able to see clear data showcasing how females produce more testosterone & having more male-align brains which would make them more likely to become Lesbian, Trans or Bisexual against control - which to my knowledge no study have shown. >This is also why soy products may increase breast size in men but not in women If you mean breast size as in they work out and get bigger muscles in the chest area because of protein that came from soy-based products, then yes I agree. If you're making the argument that it increases estrogen because soy contains "plant estrogen" then no afaik you're wrong.[1][2] [1]https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00966-2/pdf https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00966-2/pdf [2]https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)00368-7/pdf https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)00368-7/pdf
- ttbooms 3y ago
  Actually there may be such an effect for men who consume large amounts of soy, see this case study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18558591 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18558591 Breast growth, erectile dysfunction and decreased libido in a 60-year-old male who drank about six pints of soy milk per day. With no other cause indicated. His symptoms ceased after he stopped consuming all this soy.
  - 0dayz 3y ago
    Sorry but this is not a study, it's a case report. As they could not determine his testosterone levels before he started to ingest soy milk, it's impossible to know if the man was already suffering from low testosterone. And in my sources they have studies that specifically look into people that are 60+ and there was no such link found.
    - ttbooms 3y ago
      In the papers you linked, I can't see any studies where the subjects were consuming an equivalent amount of soy to the 60-year-old soy milk enjoyer. Looks to be much less in all of these trials. So it seems the question hasn't been conclusively answered. But the case study hints at the possibility of an excessively high intake of soy having an estrogenizing effect, even if we don't know why. Maybe he had some particular configuration of gut bacteria that helped this process along, or something. More research needed.
      - 0dayz 3y ago
        No because your source isn't a study but a case report. And again even if we take your source at face value it's a 60 year old man (which mean less testosterone production) who consumed an absurd amount not something most people will consume.

0dayz 3y ago

Their reasoning makes no sense, because they assume LGBT = gay men & trans women. The probably not is in reference to PFAS making people LGBT not to people being feminized. Thanks for the very basic explanation of endocrinology, unfortunately it does not support the OPs claim, you're at worst arguing with an invisible post or at best, stating something that doesn't disprove anything in my claim. And I'll reiterate the claim is not that PFAS does not feminized people, the claim is that if we were to see it affecting our sexuality, SPECIFICALLY making us move from being straight to LGBT then we should see be able to see clear data showcasing how females produce more testosterone & having more male-align brains which would make them more likely to become Lesbian, Trans or Bisexual against control - which to my knowledge no study have shown. >This is also why soy products may increase breast size in men but not in women If you mean breast size as in they work out and get bigger muscles in the chest area because of protein that came from soy-based products, then yes I agree. If you're making the argument that it increases estrogen because soy contains "plant estrogen" then no afaik you're wrong.[1][2] [1]https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00966-2/pdf https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00966-2/pdf [2]https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)00368-7/pdf https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)00368-7/pdf

ttbooms 3y ago
Actually there may be such an effect for men who consume large amounts of soy, see this case study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18558591 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18558591 Breast growth, erectile dysfunction and decreased libido in a 60-year-old male who drank about six pints of soy milk per day. With no other cause indicated. His symptoms ceased after he stopped consuming all this soy.
- 0dayz 3y ago
  Sorry but this is not a study, it's a case report. As they could not determine his testosterone levels before he started to ingest soy milk, it's impossible to know if the man was already suffering from low testosterone. And in my sources they have studies that specifically look into people that are 60+ and there was no such link found.
  - ttbooms 3y ago
    In the papers you linked, I can't see any studies where the subjects were consuming an equivalent amount of soy to the 60-year-old soy milk enjoyer. Looks to be much less in all of these trials. So it seems the question hasn't been conclusively answered. But the case study hints at the possibility of an excessively high intake of soy having an estrogenizing effect, even if we don't know why. Maybe he had some particular configuration of gut bacteria that helped this process along, or something. More research needed.
    - 0dayz 3y ago
      No because your source isn't a study but a case report. And again even if we take your source at face value it's a 60 year old man (which mean less testosterone production) who consumed an absurd amount not something most people will consume.