5 ms·

Pfas are non-stick coatings? I'm going to say it's not on same level of utility as fire, wheel or internal combustion engines.

by Ygg2 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
profile53 3y ago
They’re used for: - lab equipment since they’re extremely non reactive - semiconductor manufacturing for the same reason as above - coatings inside engines/hot, high wear areas, far prolonging their lives - rubber seals preventing chemical leaks (oil, gas, antifreeze, etc) … the list goes on. Yeah they’re a non stick coating for pans but they’re also used in an incredible number of other places.
- thsksbd 3y ago
  Most applications, even industrial, that need perfluorinated plastics have more expensive alternatives. Some industries really dont have alternatives. How about we get rid of nonstick pans, gore Tex jackets and significantly reduce fluorine chemisty?
  - Vecr 3y ago
    > Most applications, even industrial, that need perfluorinated plastics have more expensive alternatives. Like what? I don't think you can turn PEEK or UHWMPE into a rubber like substance...
    - thsksbd 3y ago
      None of the materials you listed are fluorinated polymers. EDIT: If you meant that I cant turn PEEK into a plastic (as in having plasticity) - sure. But read my comment carefully. Im not saying fluorinated polymers don't have their use cases. Im just saying that for many (but not all!) applications of perfluorinated polymers, there are alternative ways of doing things. For example wool and stainless steel make excellent alternatives for jackets and frying pans. Should nuclear (re)processing plants ditch teflon when dealing with UF6? Probably not. Should my gas fittings need teflon tape? No, alternatives exist.
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
  Justifying the damage caused by their production and use by pointing to the usefulness of the final product seems very risky. There are plenty of ends we might value, but they don't inherently justify the means.
  - nightski 3y ago
    I'd argue though that the customers are just as guilty/responsible as the company making the product that they demand/buy and maybe they should share in the financial burden of damages if that is the path we are on.
    - hedora 3y ago
      This would be true if the products were clearly labelled, and safer existing alternatives weren’t pulled off the market by centralized decision makers at large companies. As it is, if you buy a “ceramic” pan, you get some teflon knockoff instead of Le Creuset style stuff.
    - flagrant_taco 3y ago
      I'm not sure how that would work exactly, but sure if customers were properly informed and knew what they were buying had such bad side effects some of the blame would land on them. That'd be a hard sell though since it seems like part of the issue was manufacturers burying research and denying any knowledge of problems while selling these chemicals as a miracle cure of sorts
hwillis 3y ago
Not even- Teflon breakdown is a much smaller source, you just happen to maybe eat it. PFAS have been phased out of use already. These chemicals were put into basically everything, like asbestos was. Cleaning products, spray grease, fabrics, paper, shampoo and cosmetics, stain-resistant coatings. https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/chemical/pfas.htm https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/chemical/pfas.htm
- putnambr 3y ago
  PFAS have been phased out of use? Where? You have to hunt for PFAS-free ski or bike lubrication, it's in your contact lenses, and on all of your non-stick pans.
  - damethos 3y ago
    Hi. Irrelevant with this thread, but can you please reply to me here if you got the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35955336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35955336 Search for my username and you will find my question! Thanks!
    - putnambr 3y ago
      Sure - the *Client would be a class or library intended for import/use by consumers of a resource exposed by a service. The exposed API should be viewed as usable independently, but it can sometimes be useful to add a layer of abstraction via a Client to would hold any logic required for interacting with a specific API. Say you have an API that lets you bulk fetch an Item (`getItems(Collection<UUID> itemIds, int pageNumber, int pageSize)`), but the API enforces pagination and also requires authentication. A Client could require instantiation with whatever is required for authentication (`ic = new ItemClient(authToken)`), and provide a method to retrieve a huge list of Items without worrying about pagination (`ic.getItems(itemIds)`).
      - damethos 3y ago
        Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were talking about something else in the original comment.
Aunche 3y ago
According to the article, the source of the PFAS in most of these lawsuits is firefighting foam.

Pfas are non-stick coatings? I'm going to say it's not on same level of utility as fire, wheel or internal combustion engines.

by Ygg2 3y ago

Pfas are non-stick coatings? I'm going to say it's not on same level of utility as fire, wheel or internal combustion engines.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

profile53 3y ago

They’re used for: - lab equipment since they’re extremely non reactive - semiconductor manufacturing for the same reason as above - coatings inside engines/hot, high wear areas, far prolonging their lives - rubber seals preventing chemical leaks (oil, gas, antifreeze, etc) … the list goes on. Yeah they’re a non stick coating for pans but they’re also used in an incredible number of other places.

thsksbd 3y ago
Most applications, even industrial, that need perfluorinated plastics have more expensive alternatives. Some industries really dont have alternatives. How about we get rid of nonstick pans, gore Tex jackets and significantly reduce fluorine chemisty?
- Vecr 3y ago
  > Most applications, even industrial, that need perfluorinated plastics have more expensive alternatives. Like what? I don't think you can turn PEEK or UHWMPE into a rubber like substance...
  - thsksbd 3y ago
    None of the materials you listed are fluorinated polymers. EDIT: If you meant that I cant turn PEEK into a plastic (as in having plasticity) - sure. But read my comment carefully. Im not saying fluorinated polymers don't have their use cases. Im just saying that for many (but not all!) applications of perfluorinated polymers, there are alternative ways of doing things. For example wool and stainless steel make excellent alternatives for jackets and frying pans. Should nuclear (re)processing plants ditch teflon when dealing with UF6? Probably not. Should my gas fittings need teflon tape? No, alternatives exist.
flagrant_taco 3y ago
Justifying the damage caused by their production and use by pointing to the usefulness of the final product seems very risky. There are plenty of ends we might value, but they don't inherently justify the means.
- nightski 3y ago
  I'd argue though that the customers are just as guilty/responsible as the company making the product that they demand/buy and maybe they should share in the financial burden of damages if that is the path we are on.
  - hedora 3y ago
    This would be true if the products were clearly labelled, and safer existing alternatives weren’t pulled off the market by centralized decision makers at large companies. As it is, if you buy a “ceramic” pan, you get some teflon knockoff instead of Le Creuset style stuff.
  - flagrant_taco 3y ago
    I'm not sure how that would work exactly, but sure if customers were properly informed and knew what they were buying had such bad side effects some of the blame would land on them. That'd be a hard sell though since it seems like part of the issue was manufacturers burying research and denying any knowledge of problems while selling these chemicals as a miracle cure of sorts

hwillis 3y ago

Not even- Teflon breakdown is a much smaller source, you just happen to maybe eat it. PFAS have been phased out of use already. These chemicals were put into basically everything, like asbestos was. Cleaning products, spray grease, fabrics, paper, shampoo and cosmetics, stain-resistant coatings. https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/chemical/pfas.htm https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/chemical/pfas.htm

putnambr 3y ago
PFAS have been phased out of use? Where? You have to hunt for PFAS-free ski or bike lubrication, it's in your contact lenses, and on all of your non-stick pans.
- damethos 3y ago
  Hi. Irrelevant with this thread, but can you please reply to me here if you got the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35955336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35955336 Search for my username and you will find my question! Thanks!
  - putnambr 3y ago
    Sure - the *Client would be a class or library intended for import/use by consumers of a resource exposed by a service. The exposed API should be viewed as usable independently, but it can sometimes be useful to add a layer of abstraction via a Client to would hold any logic required for interacting with a specific API. Say you have an API that lets you bulk fetch an Item (`getItems(Collection<UUID> itemIds, int pageNumber, int pageSize)`), but the API enforces pagination and also requires authentication. A Client could require instantiation with whatever is required for authentication (`ic = new ItemClient(authToken)`), and provide a method to retrieve a huge list of Items without worrying about pagination (`ic.getItems(itemIds)`).
    - damethos 3y ago
      Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were talking about something else in the original comment.

Aunche 3y ago

According to the article, the source of the PFAS in most of these lawsuits is firefighting foam.