5 ms·

Possession of copyrighted material without permission of the creator is illegal, but yes -- rights holders don't really go after infringers except maybe via ISP

Possession of copyrighted material without permission of the creator is illegal, but yes -- rights holders don't really go after infringers except maybe via ISP three strikes crap. They're very much incentivized to change their behavior for AI scraping, though.

magoghm 3y ago
I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that copyright law typically regulates the unauthorized reproduction, distribution, public display, or creation of derivative works of copyrighted materials. Possession of copyrighted material in itself is not illegal. It's how you use that material that could potentially violate copyright laws.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  IANAL either, but FWIW, it's literally in the name - copyright. Not "ownership rights", but "copying rights".
  - jprete 3y ago
    That's not terribly relevant for Internet applications, because for the most part people deliberately cause the computer they control to download and save copyrighted material to storage they control, and then consume it at leisure. That's copying.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      That still means you'd have to show the user actually made a copy themselves - that's different than learning they possess one.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      If I understand right (I'm not a lawyer), something like this came up in a case about a utility for cheating in an online game, and another much older one about the copy of an app made in memory in order to run it. For the purpose for which the software was sold and bought, the in-memory copy is legit[1]. For cheating, it's a copyright violation[0]. [0] https://www.engadget.com/2008-07-15-blizzard-wins-lawsuit-against-bot-makers.html https://www.engadget.com/2008-07-15-blizzard-wins-lawsuit-ag... [1] http://digital-law-online.info/lpdi1.0/treatise20.html http://digital-law-online.info/lpdi1.0/treatise20.html
- TheCleric 3y ago
  If we are speaking of US criminal law, then what you say is true. It doesn't mean that is true in other regions, nor does it mean you wouldn't be held liable in a civil court.
- metadat 3y ago
  Yet.. If you configure your torrent client to never seed back (i.e. never upload or transmit content to others) and download from a public tracker, when the copyright infringement notice comes from your ISP, this explanation will change nothing. Notably, I think this is wrong - as per the legal definition, publishers, ISPs, and courts should only hold you accountable if you helped distribute via uploading.
- bryans 3y ago
  > Possession of copyrighted material in itself is not illegal. The means of procurement matters. If they are in possession of copyrighted material because someone without the proper rights gave it to them illegally, then the possession itself is also illegal. It's illegal to own knowingly stolen property in all 50 US states and most countries, and while we could argue to the end of days about whether copying a file truly qualifies as stealing, the legal precedents are very clear on the matter.
  - beej71 3y ago
    Is possession of a pirated work the same as possession of stolen property, legally?
    - bryans 3y ago
      Absolutely it is. There is two centuries of precedence marking copyrighted works as property. It's literally called intellectual property. The courts have only made clarification that intellectual property doesn't violate physical property theft laws (denying ownership), but instead intellectual property theft laws (denying compensation).
      - beej71 3y ago
        But "possession of stolen property" is a specific criminal charge that doesn't typically have to do with copyright (being more to do with, say, bicycles). I can't find any example of "possession of stolen property" charges being brought against a copyright violator, but it's a hard thing to Google.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > If they are in possession of copyrighted material because someone without the proper rights gave it to them illegally, then the possession itself is also illegal. No, they aren’t. > It's illegal to own knowingly stolen property in all 50 US states While copyright violation is often metaphorically (or hyperbolicly) referred to as stealing, copyright violation isn't theft and a copy created in violation of copyright is not stolen property. The essencd of theft lies in deprivation of the owner of the use of the good, not mere trespass to their right to exclude others.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  You are incorrect. One of the biggest rights in copyright is the ability to basically refuse distribution entirely. You cannot have a copy of a copyrighted work without the authors permission. To do otherwise is a violation of the copyright owners right to be in control of who can access their work.

magoghm 3y ago

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that copyright law typically regulates the unauthorized reproduction, distribution, public display, or creation of derivative works of copyrighted materials. Possession of copyrighted material in itself is not illegal. It's how you use that material that could potentially violate copyright laws.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
IANAL either, but FWIW, it's literally in the name - copyright. Not "ownership rights", but "copying rights".
- jprete 3y ago
  That's not terribly relevant for Internet applications, because for the most part people deliberately cause the computer they control to download and save copyrighted material to storage they control, and then consume it at leisure. That's copying.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    That still means you'd have to show the user actually made a copy themselves - that's different than learning they possess one.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    If I understand right (I'm not a lawyer), something like this came up in a case about a utility for cheating in an online game, and another much older one about the copy of an app made in memory in order to run it. For the purpose for which the software was sold and bought, the in-memory copy is legit[1]. For cheating, it's a copyright violation[0]. [0] https://www.engadget.com/2008-07-15-blizzard-wins-lawsuit-against-bot-makers.html https://www.engadget.com/2008-07-15-blizzard-wins-lawsuit-ag... [1] http://digital-law-online.info/lpdi1.0/treatise20.html http://digital-law-online.info/lpdi1.0/treatise20.html
TheCleric 3y ago
If we are speaking of US criminal law, then what you say is true. It doesn't mean that is true in other regions, nor does it mean you wouldn't be held liable in a civil court.
metadat 3y ago
Yet.. If you configure your torrent client to never seed back (i.e. never upload or transmit content to others) and download from a public tracker, when the copyright infringement notice comes from your ISP, this explanation will change nothing. Notably, I think this is wrong - as per the legal definition, publishers, ISPs, and courts should only hold you accountable if you helped distribute via uploading.
bryans 3y ago
> Possession of copyrighted material in itself is not illegal. The means of procurement matters. If they are in possession of copyrighted material because someone without the proper rights gave it to them illegally, then the possession itself is also illegal. It's illegal to own knowingly stolen property in all 50 US states and most countries, and while we could argue to the end of days about whether copying a file truly qualifies as stealing, the legal precedents are very clear on the matter.
- beej71 3y ago
  Is possession of a pirated work the same as possession of stolen property, legally?
  - bryans 3y ago
    Absolutely it is. There is two centuries of precedence marking copyrighted works as property. It's literally called intellectual property. The courts have only made clarification that intellectual property doesn't violate physical property theft laws (denying ownership), but instead intellectual property theft laws (denying compensation).
    - beej71 3y ago
      But "possession of stolen property" is a specific criminal charge that doesn't typically have to do with copyright (being more to do with, say, bicycles). I can't find any example of "possession of stolen property" charges being brought against a copyright violator, but it's a hard thing to Google.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > If they are in possession of copyrighted material because someone without the proper rights gave it to them illegally, then the possession itself is also illegal. No, they aren’t. > It's illegal to own knowingly stolen property in all 50 US states While copyright violation is often metaphorically (or hyperbolicly) referred to as stealing, copyright violation isn't theft and a copy created in violation of copyright is not stolen property. The essencd of theft lies in deprivation of the owner of the use of the good, not mere trespass to their right to exclude others.
mrguyorama 3y ago
You are incorrect. One of the biggest rights in copyright is the ability to basically refuse distribution entirely. You cannot have a copy of a copyrighted work without the authors permission. To do otherwise is a violation of the copyright owners right to be in control of who can access their work.