4 ms·

freedom of movement of workers is completely distinct from Schengen e.g. as an EU citizen you can work in Ireland without a visa, which is not part of Schengen

dgellow 3y ago
It’s not completely distinct, it’s a superset of Schengen called EFTA. Ireland is part of EFTA but not Schengen. The EU is messy.
- blibble 3y ago
  > It’s not completely distinct, it’s a superset of Schengen called EFTA the EFTA is not a superset of Schengen, they are completely different treaties and are unrelated (other than the fact all EFTA countries also separately signed the Schengen agreement) > Ireland is part of EFTA but not Schengen. Ireland is not "part of" (signatory of) EFTA, it is however part of the EEA > The EU is messy. EFTA is not the EU, and originally Schengen was nothing to do with the EC either
  - dgellow 3y ago
    I meant a superset in the sense that the set of members is basically Schengen plus a few other countries. But you’re right, I mixed up EFTA and EEA. To go back to the original point, Switzerland is in both EFTA and Schengen, the country offers visa free long stay and the possibility to work there without the hassle of getting a work permit. All of this, plus high wages is a great way to attract talents from neighboring countries.
    - blibble 3y ago
      > To go back to the original point, Switzerland is in both EFTA and Schengen neither of which have anything to do with freedom of movement of workers Switzerland is the worst example you could have picked, it is the only example of a EFTA country that is not in the EEA and not subject to the freedom of movement rules in the same way what you should have said originally was EEA (not Schengen) venn diagram: https://i2.wp.com/thisbugslife.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/181472254_10158056656085983_2274395597726986642_n.jpg https://i2.wp.com/thisbugslife.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/0...
      - dgellow 3y ago
        Great to know. Whatever the correct acronym is doesn’t change the point. No visa required for long stay and work is what makes it attractive.
        blibble 3y ago
        it's sort of missing the main point, the main obstacle is and always has been: language in terms of the UK, an order of magnitude more emigrated outside of the EU than exercising freedom of movement within it (despite having to put up with stuff like visas)
        dgellow 3y ago
        Yes, language is for sure an obstacle, that's totally valid. I'm originally from the French-speaking region of Switzerland, even just moving to a different canton within the country can be daunting due to the fact that we have 3 languages (not counting Romansh, it isn't really used), and people only speak decent English in the most international cities: Geneva and Zurich. I'm in the minority of European who would love to see English being adopted as a sort of official common second-language. That will never happen but I think it would be fantastic if the region would feel less fragmented.

dgellow 3y ago

It’s not completely distinct, it’s a superset of Schengen called EFTA. Ireland is part of EFTA but not Schengen. The EU is messy.

blibble 3y ago
> It’s not completely distinct, it’s a superset of Schengen called EFTA the EFTA is not a superset of Schengen, they are completely different treaties and are unrelated (other than the fact all EFTA countries also separately signed the Schengen agreement) > Ireland is part of EFTA but not Schengen. Ireland is not "part of" (signatory of) EFTA, it is however part of the EEA > The EU is messy. EFTA is not the EU, and originally Schengen was nothing to do with the EC either
- dgellow 3y ago
  I meant a superset in the sense that the set of members is basically Schengen plus a few other countries. But you’re right, I mixed up EFTA and EEA. To go back to the original point, Switzerland is in both EFTA and Schengen, the country offers visa free long stay and the possibility to work there without the hassle of getting a work permit. All of this, plus high wages is a great way to attract talents from neighboring countries.
  - blibble 3y ago
    > To go back to the original point, Switzerland is in both EFTA and Schengen neither of which have anything to do with freedom of movement of workers Switzerland is the worst example you could have picked, it is the only example of a EFTA country that is not in the EEA and not subject to the freedom of movement rules in the same way what you should have said originally was EEA (not Schengen) venn diagram: https://i2.wp.com/thisbugslife.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/181472254_10158056656085983_2274395597726986642_n.jpg https://i2.wp.com/thisbugslife.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/0...
    - dgellow 3y ago
      Great to know. Whatever the correct acronym is doesn’t change the point. No visa required for long stay and work is what makes it attractive.
      - blibble 3y ago
        it's sort of missing the main point, the main obstacle is and always has been: language in terms of the UK, an order of magnitude more emigrated outside of the EU than exercising freedom of movement within it (despite having to put up with stuff like visas)
        dgellow 3y ago
        Yes, language is for sure an obstacle, that's totally valid. I'm originally from the French-speaking region of Switzerland, even just moving to a different canton within the country can be daunting due to the fact that we have 3 languages (not counting Romansh, it isn't really used), and people only speak decent English in the most international cities: Geneva and Zurich. I'm in the minority of European who would love to see English being adopted as a sort of official common second-language. That will never happen but I think it would be fantastic if the region would feel less fragmented.