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> Any evidence for that? Actually, any evidence that contact tracing has actually had any benefits wherever it has been tried? I'm sure it helps at very, very e

> Any evidence for that? Actually, any evidence that contact tracing has actually had any benefits wherever it has been tried? I'm sure it helps at very, very early stages of a pandemic, and even then depending on which virus we are trying to trace... But I'd like to see actual proof that it helps for pandemics like COVID. > Otherwise it is such an easy way to implement mass surveillance, that requiring very very thorough proof that it actually helps is the bare minimum. This story is proof of that. I guess it depends on the type of technologies used. For example, Google's and Apple's Exposure Notifications API that many of the contact tracing application used didn't actually allow accessing locations directly: https://developers.google.com/android/exposure-notifications/exposure-notifications-api https://developers.google.com/android/exposure-notifications... > Your app must have the BLUETOOTH and INTERNET permission in its manifest, but your app doesn't require and can't include ACCESS_COARSE_LOCATION, ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION, nor BLUETOOTH_ADMIN. For more information about restrictions on your app, see the API’s Terms of Service. In particular, in the section 3c: > i. Your App may not request the Location, Bluetooth_Admin, Special Access, Privileged, or Signature permissions, or collect any device information to identify or track the precise location of end users How it worked was that you gathered more or less randomly generated identifiers through Bluetooth of devices that were nearby and whose users had also turned on the app functionality. When you were less than 2 meters or so away for around 15 minutes, a contact would be registered. If that person later got sick, the identifier (without PII) would be published and your app could alert you, along the lines of: "Hey, you were in contact with a person that was infected. You probably should self-isolate." Source: worked on the Apturi Covid project in my country as a volunteer, though mostly developed the webpage: https://web.archive.org/web/20230530141239/https://apturicovid.lv/#en https://web.archive.org/web/20230530141239/https://apturicov... (was nice to see ~100 volunteers coming together to make it happen in my country, personally got a notification about possible exposure as well and self-isolated for a bit, though didn't get sick) Actually wrote a blog post ages ago about how one might actually try to aggregate GPS data while preserving privacy, though obviously that sort of approach is a ticking time bomb because of the nature of the information: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/covid-19-contact-tracing-with-gps-versus-bluetooth-and-the-unexplored-potential-for-the-apps https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/covid-19-contact-tracing-wi...

pantalaimon 3y ago
I think this ended up pretty much useless. If you use the app in public transport, you would get a warning every day. What were you supposed to do with that information then? Most people just ignored it.
- KronisLV 3y ago
  > If you use the app in public transport, you would get a warning every day. Wasn't really the case for me going to work, but maybe that's because of keeping a bit of distance, which might just be possible due to the lower population density over and eventually a gradual shift to remote work. > What were you supposed to do with that information then? Most people just ignored it. There definitely were people who got the notifications and self-isolated for a while, to not end up spreading the virus and probably take a test ASAP. If enough people used it, it could help quite a bit with limiting the spread. It did have some effect from what I've heard, which is still good, when doing nothing would result in more deaths. Thankfully eventually the virus variants got less dangerous, but it's sad when a good initiative ends up being less useful due to people just not caring.
- amluto 3y ago
  In an alternate universe in which Covid was very rare in a population (say 5 cases in an entire city), then contact tracing might be able to push R<1 if everyone who got an exposure notification quarantined for a few days. Sure, maybe 50 people would be quarantining at a given time due to false positives (potential exposures with no infection), but that would be a fine tradeoff to protect the whole city, especially if those people were appropriately compensated for the service they would be effectively performing and the infringement on their civil rights. The number of people inconvenienced per person protected from Covid would be very small (much, much less than one). Of course, nothing of the sort happened in the US, and in a situation in which most of the population gets Covid anyway in relatively short order, the number of people getting false positive notifications per person protected from Covid was be very large, and the total benefit was very low.

pantalaimon 3y ago

I think this ended up pretty much useless. If you use the app in public transport, you would get a warning every day. What were you supposed to do with that information then? Most people just ignored it.

KronisLV 3y ago
> If you use the app in public transport, you would get a warning every day. Wasn't really the case for me going to work, but maybe that's because of keeping a bit of distance, which might just be possible due to the lower population density over and eventually a gradual shift to remote work. > What were you supposed to do with that information then? Most people just ignored it. There definitely were people who got the notifications and self-isolated for a while, to not end up spreading the virus and probably take a test ASAP. If enough people used it, it could help quite a bit with limiting the spread. It did have some effect from what I've heard, which is still good, when doing nothing would result in more deaths. Thankfully eventually the virus variants got less dangerous, but it's sad when a good initiative ends up being less useful due to people just not caring.
amluto 3y ago
In an alternate universe in which Covid was very rare in a population (say 5 cases in an entire city), then contact tracing might be able to push R<1 if everyone who got an exposure notification quarantined for a few days. Sure, maybe 50 people would be quarantining at a given time due to false positives (potential exposures with no infection), but that would be a fine tradeoff to protect the whole city, especially if those people were appropriately compensated for the service they would be effectively performing and the infringement on their civil rights. The number of people inconvenienced per person protected from Covid would be very small (much, much less than one). Of course, nothing of the sort happened in the US, and in a situation in which most of the population gets Covid anyway in relatively short order, the number of people getting false positive notifications per person protected from Covid was be very large, and the total benefit was very low.