5 ms·

All I've seen so far suggests they're almost entirely focused on virtual 2d screens floating in 3d space, and not other virtual 3d objects at all.

by Jarmsy 3y ago

dev_tty01 3y ago
Not true at all. https://developer.apple.com/visionos/ https://developer.apple.com/visionos/
- wccrawford 3y ago
  Why would you think that URL would prove them wrong, when the only image it has on that page is of 2d screens floating in 3d space?
  - dev_tty01 3y ago
    There are numerous quotes in the text describing the 3D API for creating and manipulating 3D content. For example: "Present 3D content, animations, and visual effects in your app with RealityKit, Apple’s 3D rendering engine."
threeseed 3y ago
They had many WWDC sessions covering 3D objects especially with the Unity integration [1] and their Reality Composer Pro [2] tool. Both were covered during the keynote. And if you look on Youtube there are countless videos of third party developers developing 3D apps. It's just that they are positioning the device as a spatial computer i.e. something you use to get real work done. And right now for 99% of people that involves 2D windows. [1] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10088/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10088/ [2] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10083/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10083/
- nomel 3y ago
  I take their point as a problem of control. Picking up objects with hand tracking is, in my experience, much less deterministic, and much less useful, compared to picking them up with a button and haptics.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    Everyone that has tried the Vision Pro has said the eye and hand tracking is flawless. Definitely agree with haptics which many have mentioned is an issue.
    - nomel 3y ago
      > Everyone that has tried the Vision Pro has said the eye and hand tracking is flawless. Context of the interaction is important. I've seen this mentioned with selecting, but not with doing something like picking up a 3d object. I don't recall seeing this use in any of the release footage.
      - threeseed 3y ago
        There are plenty of WWDC videos around with specific details on Hand Tracking e.g. https://youtu.be/zNFpAQb9hAg?t=908 https://youtu.be/zNFpAQb9hAg?t=908
        Jedd 3y ago
        That's an impressive set of alleged joint-tracking at https://youtu.be/zNFpAQb9hAg?t=985 https://youtu.be/zNFpAQb9hAg?t=985 26 joints per hand. Assuming that all the joints in your hand are visible to the device (this seems to be unlikely for much of the time). As per parent's line of questioning, it doesn't address how that maps to a manipulation in the virtual realm in practice. In comparison, each controller on my Valve Index has 87 sensors - that can distinguish touch vs actual press (triggers etc), pressure, presence vs absence (fingers on the handle), as well as the usual orientation / accelerometer sensors. Even with an abundance of processing power, a camera-tracking system can't get there.
        3y ago
- jayd16 3y ago
  I think you're right to pick up on the fact that 99% of digital content out there is 2D and they're leaning into that. It's a known quantity and easier to market.
- btown 3y ago
  Something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxPO-bfbOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxPO-bfbOk (https://www.immersionanalytics.com/ https://www.immersionanalytics.com/) would absolutely be possible with Apple's support for 3D objects. I hope that Apple doesn't neglect the analytics/visualization use case for launch; it could be gamechanging for their go-to-market strategy, as it would find its way into many corporate budgets.
- mr_toad 3y ago
  > And if you look on Youtube there are countless videos of third party developers developing 3D apps. Why developers want to make, and what consumers want aren’t necessarily the same thing.
dagmx 3y ago
They had 3D objects on showcase in the developer tools Press release https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/developer-tools-to-create-spatial-experiences-for-apple-vision-pro-now-available/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/developer-tools-to-cr...

All I've seen so far suggests they're almost entirely focused on virtual 2d screens floating in 3d space, and not other virtual 3d objects at all.

by Jarmsy 3y ago

All I've seen so far suggests they're almost entirely focused on virtual 2d screens floating in 3d space, and not other virtual 3d objects at all.

dev_tty01 3y ago

Not true at all. https://developer.apple.com/visionos/ https://developer.apple.com/visionos/

wccrawford 3y ago
Why would you think that URL would prove them wrong, when the only image it has on that page is of 2d screens floating in 3d space?
- dev_tty01 3y ago
  There are numerous quotes in the text describing the 3D API for creating and manipulating 3D content. For example: "Present 3D content, animations, and visual effects in your app with RealityKit, Apple’s 3D rendering engine."

threeseed 3y ago

They had many WWDC sessions covering 3D objects especially with the Unity integration [1] and their Reality Composer Pro [2] tool. Both were covered during the keynote. And if you look on Youtube there are countless videos of third party developers developing 3D apps. It's just that they are positioning the device as a spatial computer i.e. something you use to get real work done. And right now for 99% of people that involves 2D windows. [1] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10088/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10088/ [2] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10083/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10083/

nomel 3y ago
I take their point as a problem of control. Picking up objects with hand tracking is, in my experience, much less deterministic, and much less useful, compared to picking them up with a button and haptics.
- threeseed 3y ago
  Everyone that has tried the Vision Pro has said the eye and hand tracking is flawless. Definitely agree with haptics which many have mentioned is an issue.
  - nomel 3y ago
    > Everyone that has tried the Vision Pro has said the eye and hand tracking is flawless. Context of the interaction is important. I've seen this mentioned with selecting, but not with doing something like picking up a 3d object. I don't recall seeing this use in any of the release footage.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      There are plenty of WWDC videos around with specific details on Hand Tracking e.g. https://youtu.be/zNFpAQb9hAg?t=908 https://youtu.be/zNFpAQb9hAg?t=908
      - Jedd 3y ago
        That's an impressive set of alleged joint-tracking at https://youtu.be/zNFpAQb9hAg?t=985 https://youtu.be/zNFpAQb9hAg?t=985 26 joints per hand. Assuming that all the joints in your hand are visible to the device (this seems to be unlikely for much of the time). As per parent's line of questioning, it doesn't address how that maps to a manipulation in the virtual realm in practice. In comparison, each controller on my Valve Index has 87 sensors - that can distinguish touch vs actual press (triggers etc), pressure, presence vs absence (fingers on the handle), as well as the usual orientation / accelerometer sensors. Even with an abundance of processing power, a camera-tracking system can't get there.
      - 3y ago
jayd16 3y ago
I think you're right to pick up on the fact that 99% of digital content out there is 2D and they're leaning into that. It's a known quantity and easier to market.
btown 3y ago
Something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxPO-bfbOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxPO-bfbOk (https://www.immersionanalytics.com/ https://www.immersionanalytics.com/) would absolutely be possible with Apple's support for 3D objects. I hope that Apple doesn't neglect the analytics/visualization use case for launch; it could be gamechanging for their go-to-market strategy, as it would find its way into many corporate budgets.
mr_toad 3y ago
> And if you look on Youtube there are countless videos of third party developers developing 3D apps. Why developers want to make, and what consumers want aren’t necessarily the same thing.

dagmx 3y ago

They had 3D objects on showcase in the developer tools Press release https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/developer-tools-to-create-spatial-experiences-for-apple-vision-pro-now-available/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/developer-tools-to-cr...