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I've the impression you didn't read or engage with the articles I provided at all. My comment closer to the top got flagged because some people who work in soc

by xkcd1963 3y ago

I've the impression you didn't read or engage with the articles I provided at all. My comment closer to the top got flagged because some people who work in social "science" don't like it if someone tells them the truth.

dahart 3y ago
Well, I guess like the rest of your comments, your impression is wrong and you’re making assumptions and jumping to unsupported conclusions. I read all three articles in their entirety, and the comments under them. They simply don’t back up your claim about social science vs science. Why do you believe people downvoting you work in social science, what actual evidence do you have for that? I would love to see that, I want to know how to identify the jobs and motivations of people responding to me.
- xkcd1963 3y ago
  I don't think I'm wrong otherwise I'd stop arguing with you. But you insist stubbornly that I'm wrong without providing any good arguments. Regarding the downvoting, I don't have evidence for it, but you don't have evidence for your version either. My assumption is that you for some reason see the need to uphold social science as a science, and anything against that narration must be wrong automatically.
  - dahart 3y ago
    Aww come on, you can do better than this, I know you can. The ad-hominems are weak. Defend science with evidence and not assumption. Assume you might be wrong, and prove yourself right. The argument you’re attempting to make is older than both of us put together, and the talking points you’re repeating are well worn (and for the most part have lost the test of time), but there is still ample material out there. I’ve been giving you hints that there is a valid argument to make, but this isn’t it. What is science? Please define it. What is social science? What does a social scientist do, and why doesn’t it amount to science in your mind? What does a biologist do differently? Now answer this question carefully: why do so many people call it a science if it’s not? Why does social science have science in the name? Why do all the encyclopedias and dictionaries all define social science as a science, if you’re right? Why do you believe you know better than the experts that I’ve linked to? Things that might clarify the discussion include: why is it important to you to state that social science is not a field of science? What harm do you believe is being done by calling social science a science? You’ve argued that social science is not a science because it’s not exact, but the natural sciences are not exact. You’ve argued that science seeks to explain things based on observation and analysis, but social science does exactly that. You’ve argued that social science is “different” from STEM, which is circular (The S stands for the same science that occurs in the term “social science”) and pointing at the existence of some unspecified differences doesn’t do a single thing to demonstrate that social science is not a science or is failing to use the scientific method.
    - xkcd1963 3y ago
      Look you get on my nerves with your tone. If you want to have a conversation thats fine, but if your message starts with Aww you are not worth my time.
      - dahart 3y ago
        Oh I’m sorry. Honestly. I do want to have a conversation. Is it possible you might have misinterpreted my “tone”? I was just trying to be encouraging and break the downward spiral of ad-hominem snark here, to get back to having a discussion about the issue rather than complaining about style. There is a valid argument to be made, and you’re failing to make it. It’s abundantly clear now that you are either unable or unwilling to respond to any of my argument at all (you have completely ignored every single direct point and question about what science is, what the definition of science is, and what social science is, and so far you’ve refused to even define the terms you’re making claims about - this isn’t helping your case). You did give me 3 opinion rants, but you haven’t provided any particularly relevant or compelling evidence of your claim that social science is not a science. And the fact of the matter is that social science is currently categorized as a branch of science, regardless of your opinion. I’m curious what your expertise is, and I’m curious where you got this opinion and why you keep it in the face of contrary evidence like the dictionary. I would have loved to come to a conclusion that recognizes there’s actually some nuance here, because there is, but I’m happy to call it here if you want since I have evidence that you don’t actually seem to want to discuss the issue you brought up.
        xkcd1963 3y ago
        If you remain friendly I'm willing to continue our conversation. What if we tried an approach with examples. What field as example is a social science to you?
        dahart 3y ago
        Good. Would you mind reviewing the thread and answering some of the many questions I’ve asked that you haven’t answered? Specifically, for one, please define “science”, so we can get to the question of what is and what is not science. The claim that social science is not science is yours to justify. A list of social sciences is in the Wikipedia article I linked to already. Sociology and Anthropology would be good representative examples.

dahart 3y ago

Well, I guess like the rest of your comments, your impression is wrong and you’re making assumptions and jumping to unsupported conclusions. I read all three articles in their entirety, and the comments under them. They simply don’t back up your claim about social science vs science. Why do you believe people downvoting you work in social science, what actual evidence do you have for that? I would love to see that, I want to know how to identify the jobs and motivations of people responding to me.

xkcd1963 3y ago
I don't think I'm wrong otherwise I'd stop arguing with you. But you insist stubbornly that I'm wrong without providing any good arguments. Regarding the downvoting, I don't have evidence for it, but you don't have evidence for your version either. My assumption is that you for some reason see the need to uphold social science as a science, and anything against that narration must be wrong automatically.
- dahart 3y ago
  Aww come on, you can do better than this, I know you can. The ad-hominems are weak. Defend science with evidence and not assumption. Assume you might be wrong, and prove yourself right. The argument you’re attempting to make is older than both of us put together, and the talking points you’re repeating are well worn (and for the most part have lost the test of time), but there is still ample material out there. I’ve been giving you hints that there is a valid argument to make, but this isn’t it. What is science? Please define it. What is social science? What does a social scientist do, and why doesn’t it amount to science in your mind? What does a biologist do differently? Now answer this question carefully: why do so many people call it a science if it’s not? Why does social science have science in the name? Why do all the encyclopedias and dictionaries all define social science as a science, if you’re right? Why do you believe you know better than the experts that I’ve linked to? Things that might clarify the discussion include: why is it important to you to state that social science is not a field of science? What harm do you believe is being done by calling social science a science? You’ve argued that social science is not a science because it’s not exact, but the natural sciences are not exact. You’ve argued that science seeks to explain things based on observation and analysis, but social science does exactly that. You’ve argued that social science is “different” from STEM, which is circular (The S stands for the same science that occurs in the term “social science”) and pointing at the existence of some unspecified differences doesn’t do a single thing to demonstrate that social science is not a science or is failing to use the scientific method.
  - xkcd1963 3y ago
    Look you get on my nerves with your tone. If you want to have a conversation thats fine, but if your message starts with Aww you are not worth my time.
    - dahart 3y ago
      Oh I’m sorry. Honestly. I do want to have a conversation. Is it possible you might have misinterpreted my “tone”? I was just trying to be encouraging and break the downward spiral of ad-hominem snark here, to get back to having a discussion about the issue rather than complaining about style. There is a valid argument to be made, and you’re failing to make it. It’s abundantly clear now that you are either unable or unwilling to respond to any of my argument at all (you have completely ignored every single direct point and question about what science is, what the definition of science is, and what social science is, and so far you’ve refused to even define the terms you’re making claims about - this isn’t helping your case). You did give me 3 opinion rants, but you haven’t provided any particularly relevant or compelling evidence of your claim that social science is not a science. And the fact of the matter is that social science is currently categorized as a branch of science, regardless of your opinion. I’m curious what your expertise is, and I’m curious where you got this opinion and why you keep it in the face of contrary evidence like the dictionary. I would have loved to come to a conclusion that recognizes there’s actually some nuance here, because there is, but I’m happy to call it here if you want since I have evidence that you don’t actually seem to want to discuss the issue you brought up.
      - xkcd1963 3y ago
        If you remain friendly I'm willing to continue our conversation. What if we tried an approach with examples. What field as example is a social science to you?
        dahart 3y ago
        Good. Would you mind reviewing the thread and answering some of the many questions I’ve asked that you haven’t answered? Specifically, for one, please define “science”, so we can get to the question of what is and what is not science. The claim that social science is not science is yours to justify. A list of social sciences is in the Wikipedia article I linked to already. Sociology and Anthropology would be good representative examples.