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> In this sense communism has never been tried anywhere yet From my knowledge of European history, this is not true. Marx also said that there should be a dic

> In this sense communism has never been tried anywhere yet From my knowledge of European history, this is not true. Marx also said that there should be a dictatorship of the proletariat, who should seize the means of production. The difficulty is, is that absolute power corrupts absolutely, to steal a phrase. The worker's union movement working inside a capitalist system has brought more benefits for workers, than communism, which proved to kill millions wherever it is attempted.

palata 3y ago
> From my knowledge of European history, this is not true. You will need to elaborate on that. > Marx also said that there should be a dictatorship of the proletariat, who should seize the means of production. Which should be temporary, right? Do you have an example where it was actually temporary? That would answer my point above.
- okeuro49 3y ago
  > You will need to elaborate on that. My particular familiarity is with the German Democratic Republic. There were many true believers in communism, who in their attempt to construct a communist utopia created and contributed towards a police state. Jordan Peterson said it shows arrogance to suggest that people just weren't doing communism right, and that if only they got the theory right, then they would usher in the utopia. I would tend to agree. > Which should be temporary, right? Do you have an example where it was actually temporary? That would answer my point above. Your point was to assert that communism has never been tried. Mine was that it has been tried, and is always unsuccessful. So the failure of temporary dictatorships is proving my point, not yours.
  - palata 3y ago
    I think we're talking past each other. You say "communism doesn't work because we can't reach it", and I say "it's not entirely clear if communism doesn't work because we haven't managed to reach it". Don't you think that you risk missing interesting ideas if you reduce communism to temporary dictatorships?
    - okeuro49 3y ago
      > communism doesn't work because we can't reach it No, I'm saying it has inherent problems that means it doesn't work, and "doesn't work" is putting it lightly, given the number of people who have suffered and died under the ideology. > Don't you think that you risk missing interesting ideas if you reduce communism to temporary dictatorships? No, I've already mentioned that workers unionising under a capitalist system has brought more benefits to workers than communism.

palata 3y ago

> From my knowledge of European history, this is not true. You will need to elaborate on that. > Marx also said that there should be a dictatorship of the proletariat, who should seize the means of production. Which should be temporary, right? Do you have an example where it was actually temporary? That would answer my point above.

okeuro49 3y ago
> You will need to elaborate on that. My particular familiarity is with the German Democratic Republic. There were many true believers in communism, who in their attempt to construct a communist utopia created and contributed towards a police state. Jordan Peterson said it shows arrogance to suggest that people just weren't doing communism right, and that if only they got the theory right, then they would usher in the utopia. I would tend to agree. > Which should be temporary, right? Do you have an example where it was actually temporary? That would answer my point above. Your point was to assert that communism has never been tried. Mine was that it has been tried, and is always unsuccessful. So the failure of temporary dictatorships is proving my point, not yours.
- palata 3y ago
  I think we're talking past each other. You say "communism doesn't work because we can't reach it", and I say "it's not entirely clear if communism doesn't work because we haven't managed to reach it". Don't you think that you risk missing interesting ideas if you reduce communism to temporary dictatorships?
  - okeuro49 3y ago
    > communism doesn't work because we can't reach it No, I'm saying it has inherent problems that means it doesn't work, and "doesn't work" is putting it lightly, given the number of people who have suffered and died under the ideology. > Don't you think that you risk missing interesting ideas if you reduce communism to temporary dictatorships? No, I've already mentioned that workers unionising under a capitalist system has brought more benefits to workers than communism.