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Ukraine isn't even close to "winning" anything. Diplomacy has been fragrantly ignored by the west and ukraine. I dislike russia and yes Putin IS a thug, howev

Ukraine isn't even close to "winning" anything. Diplomacy has been fragrantly ignored by the west and ukraine. I dislike russia and yes Putin IS a thug, however there is no metric that indicates ukraine is winning or that a hot war with all of nato would do anything. Again I dislike russia, when I was visiting a friend in russia I was detained and harassed by their border authorities and found the people incredibly rude. That said, they are still entitled to sovereignty. It's also painfully ironic, that in early 2022 we accused russia of "war crimes" for using cluster munitions and this week just signed over hundreds of cluster munitions to ukraine... Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions. At the very least Zelensky should be replaced with someone who's willing to negotiate. It's sad, however continuing to "fight" will just erase any and all genetic lineage in ukraine. We've also already failed when it comes to "weakening russia" because the west already ran out of artillery ammunition. I don't understand why the only path out of this to you is continued war. Knowing the history of Georgia what happened in Ukraine is not surprising. If anything, this is a failure of American and Western geopolitics.

MobiusHorizons 3y ago
What you are asking for is a fantasy. I have found the explanations and observations of Anders Nielsen to be very insightful. This one especially explains my position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJ4JIoGnzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJ4JIoGnzc
lisasays 3y ago
Ukraine isn't even close to "winning" anything. Currently things are stalled. But the overall trajectory is that they utterly destroyed Russia's initial attempt at immediate conquest (of at least Kyiv, Kharkhiv, Odesa). And have retaken about 50 percent of the territory that Russia initially occupied, and have imposed disproportionate losses on the aggressor in basically every category. Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions. Currently this idea has essentially zero support in Ukraine (outside perhaps those regions). Do you think the Ukrainians are not capable of evaluating both the cost of the fighting so far (and the cost of the alternative) -- and making a decision about these matters on their own? Why do you feel you need to decide for them?
lljk_kennedy 3y ago
Very generous of you to give them Donbas and Crimea. How about Transnistria? Maybe Riga? Where is your line in the sand where Russia shall not cross? And wherever that is - why not have that line along the 1991 borders of Ukraine?
pknomad 3y ago
> Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions. This vaguely reminds me of the appeasement of WW2. Why should Ukraine give up territories instead of Russia when pursuing for peace? Ukraine didn't invade Russia. > It's also painfully ironic, that in early 2022 we accused russia of "war crimes" for using cluster munitions and this week just signed over hundreds of cluster munitions to ukraine... Is Ukraine planning on using those munitions on Russian civilians? It's not like the US has a moral ground on war crimes but giving munitions to an ally is not the same thing as a war crime. > If anything, this is a failure of American and Western geopolitics. Yes, let's blame the US and western allies when Russia is conducting "special operations" in Ukraine. Why do you think Finland and Sweden joined and planned to join NATO, respectively when historically their populace was against joining NATO? Ukraine too, I might add.

MobiusHorizons 3y ago

What you are asking for is a fantasy. I have found the explanations and observations of Anders Nielsen to be very insightful. This one especially explains my position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJ4JIoGnzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJ4JIoGnzc

lisasays 3y ago

Ukraine isn't even close to "winning" anything. Currently things are stalled. But the overall trajectory is that they utterly destroyed Russia's initial attempt at immediate conquest (of at least Kyiv, Kharkhiv, Odesa). And have retaken about 50 percent of the territory that Russia initially occupied, and have imposed disproportionate losses on the aggressor in basically every category. Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions. Currently this idea has essentially zero support in Ukraine (outside perhaps those regions). Do you think the Ukrainians are not capable of evaluating both the cost of the fighting so far (and the cost of the alternative) -- and making a decision about these matters on their own? Why do you feel you need to decide for them?

lljk_kennedy 3y ago

Very generous of you to give them Donbas and Crimea. How about Transnistria? Maybe Riga? Where is your line in the sand where Russia shall not cross? And wherever that is - why not have that line along the 1991 borders of Ukraine?

pknomad 3y ago

> Crimea and Donbas should be forfeited in a diplomatic matter to settle further tensions. This vaguely reminds me of the appeasement of WW2. Why should Ukraine give up territories instead of Russia when pursuing for peace? Ukraine didn't invade Russia. > It's also painfully ironic, that in early 2022 we accused russia of "war crimes" for using cluster munitions and this week just signed over hundreds of cluster munitions to ukraine... Is Ukraine planning on using those munitions on Russian civilians? It's not like the US has a moral ground on war crimes but giving munitions to an ally is not the same thing as a war crime. > If anything, this is a failure of American and Western geopolitics. Yes, let's blame the US and western allies when Russia is conducting "special operations" in Ukraine. Why do you think Finland and Sweden joined and planned to join NATO, respectively when historically their populace was against joining NATO? Ukraine too, I might add.