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Every communist regime becomes authoritarian; none has proven otherwise. But we can see many examples of successful capitalist countries with democracy and free

Every communist regime becomes authoritarian; none has proven otherwise. But we can see many examples of successful capitalist countries with democracy and freedom, even though they aren't perfect.

phatskat 3y ago
An argument I’ve seen is that we haven’t seen a truly communist country yet. The most promising ones (imo) were smaller countries who’s communist ambitions were stifled by American-backed coups. Many of the earlier communist leaders like Lenin and Mao also knew that their countries weren’t communist in practice, as you can’t slip a switch and suddenly you have working communism. Their goals were to establish governments that could lead their populations to eventually being communism in practice instead of just as an ideal. Obviously, this depends on having a government that is actively trying to make itself obsolete, and most politicians don’t want that. Capitalism may “work”, but it’s definitely not sustainable without checks and balances and limits on wealth accumulation and influence. Allowed to roam free, it’s disingenuous to say they “aren’t perfect”, they’re destroying the planet and its people.
- boeingUH60 3y ago
  Oh yeah, the old and tired argument that we haven't seen "true communism". I'm still waiting for it but till then, the ideology can be deemed invalid. I wonder if people that give this argument realize that they sound like religious cultists saying we haven't reached the true promise land...let's push harder! (despite all evidence being against them).
  - phatskat 3y ago
    Oh I’m not pushing for them to “keep waiting”. I personally am of a mind that if you’re going to do “real communism” then just do it - don’t know how that works or looks, but we inevitably end up with governments like China when going the stop-gap route. Personally I’d be more in favor of socialism. Even that requires a lot of retooling, and most countries would have an easier time with more regulated capitalism backed by more socialist governments.
  - CodeMage 3y ago
    It's just as old and tired as the defense of capitalism: "That's not capitalism, that's corporatism (or cronyism or anything other than capitalism)."
- gloryjulio 3y ago
  > Capitalism may “work”, but it’s definitely not sustainable without checks and balances and limits on wealth accumulation and influence. Allowed to roam free, it’s disingenuous to say they “aren’t perfect”, they’re destroying the planet and its people. I don't see how this wouldn't apply to so called working communism, if there is any
  - phatskat 3y ago
    There isn’t any that I’m aware of - most governments fall victim to the rich and powerful, one way or another.
    - gloryjulio 3y ago
      So why not change Capitalism to just government including Capitalism, Communism or Whatevernism?

Every communist regime becomes authoritarian; none has proven otherwise. But we can see many examples of successful capitalist countries with democracy and freedom, even though they aren't perfect.

phatskat 3y ago

An argument I’ve seen is that we haven’t seen a truly communist country yet. The most promising ones (imo) were smaller countries who’s communist ambitions were stifled by American-backed coups. Many of the earlier communist leaders like Lenin and Mao also knew that their countries weren’t communist in practice, as you can’t slip a switch and suddenly you have working communism. Their goals were to establish governments that could lead their populations to eventually being communism in practice instead of just as an ideal. Obviously, this depends on having a government that is actively trying to make itself obsolete, and most politicians don’t want that. Capitalism may “work”, but it’s definitely not sustainable without checks and balances and limits on wealth accumulation and influence. Allowed to roam free, it’s disingenuous to say they “aren’t perfect”, they’re destroying the planet and its people.

boeingUH60 3y ago
Oh yeah, the old and tired argument that we haven't seen "true communism". I'm still waiting for it but till then, the ideology can be deemed invalid. I wonder if people that give this argument realize that they sound like religious cultists saying we haven't reached the true promise land...let's push harder! (despite all evidence being against them).
- phatskat 3y ago
  Oh I’m not pushing for them to “keep waiting”. I personally am of a mind that if you’re going to do “real communism” then just do it - don’t know how that works or looks, but we inevitably end up with governments like China when going the stop-gap route. Personally I’d be more in favor of socialism. Even that requires a lot of retooling, and most countries would have an easier time with more regulated capitalism backed by more socialist governments.
- CodeMage 3y ago
  It's just as old and tired as the defense of capitalism: "That's not capitalism, that's corporatism (or cronyism or anything other than capitalism)."
gloryjulio 3y ago
> Capitalism may “work”, but it’s definitely not sustainable without checks and balances and limits on wealth accumulation and influence. Allowed to roam free, it’s disingenuous to say they “aren’t perfect”, they’re destroying the planet and its people. I don't see how this wouldn't apply to so called working communism, if there is any
- phatskat 3y ago
  There isn’t any that I’m aware of - most governments fall victim to the rich and powerful, one way or another.
  - gloryjulio 3y ago
    So why not change Capitalism to just government including Capitalism, Communism or Whatevernism?