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United Auto Workers (UAW) wants EPA to soften vehicle emissions plan
- two_handfuls 3y agoNo.
- TheSoftwareGuy 3y agoNo what?
- two_handfuls 3y agoNo, EPA shouldn’t soften the environmental protection rules. dghlsakjg put it more eloquently than I could.
- gumby 3y agoThe union is supposed to represent the interest of the workers, and should not forget that those workers breathe air and live on planet earth. They should support rules that force auto manufacturers to help everyone stay alive.
- sc68cal 3y agoAgreed. They are not looking at the long term, which is disappointing
- TheSoftwareGuy 3y agoThey unfortunately have to balance this with keeping their members employed, and their members salaries high
- dghlsakjg 3y agoWhy is advancing technology, and higher emissions standards in conflict with that?
- rcme 3y agoBecause these people only know how to make ICE vehicles?
- zdragnar 3y agoThe technology is not advancing quickly enough to meet the higher standards at the same price point as the current technology. The net result is that everyone is poorer (as defined by purchasing power) and lower demand means lost jobs and decreased negotiating ability for the union.
- dghlsakjg 3y agoIf you want to take a macro view of it: the losses taken by failing to control climate change by allowing unions to dictate emissions standards far outweigh any gains the union workers and their customers get. Or put another way, internalizing the costs of driving and making SUVs and trucks doesn’t make everyone poorer, it means that the public is t paying the costs for the private benefit of a few
- sokoloff 3y agoTo the extent that it shifts purchases away from trucks and SUVs to Teslas and Japanese hybrids, it takes food off the table of UAW members. https://uaw.org/solidarity_magazine/2023-uaw-union-built-vehicle-guide/amp/ https://uaw.org/solidarity_magazine/2023-uaw-union-built-veh...
- dghlsakjg 3y agoThey retool these factories pretty frequently when old models get redesigned, they can start making electric cars in these factories. Any number of electric car makers have already done this. Tesla and Ford, among others, are producing electric cars in former ICE car plants Making an inferior product that is bad for society shouldn’t be an argument for government favoritism.
- sokoloff 3y ago
- gumby 3y agoThat's a false dichotomy. As the employer pivots they should be retraining their workers (if needed), encouraging them to help the company succeed. Many of the workers jobs are the same with either technology: autoworkers making auto bodies, running the paint shop etc should succeed equally with either technology so you could just as well argue that the union is letting them down. Those working on the drivetrain or powerplant are the ones who could use the new skills. Focusing on helping the latter is supporting the infrastructure that would help the paint shop folks should that part of the business change in future.
- version_five 3y agoRight, we're all in this together so some group I don't really care about is just going to have to make sacrifices.
- melling 3y ago“It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It” https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/30/salary/?amp=1 https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/30/salary/?amp=1
- dghlsakjg 3y agoTheir gripe appears to be that UAW workers largely make trucks and SUVs, which are famously inefficient and in many cases exempt from fleet standards, as well as having pretty dubious safety records. I don't have a lot of sympathy for this argument. Just because your union happens to make a product with extreme externalities, doesn't mean you should get a hand in slowing down legislation that attempts to internalize some of that. This is pure rent-seeking. We shouldn't keep the toxic sludge factory open just because it is an excellent employer that refuses to make less toxic sludge.
- 300bps 3y agoAnyone curious like me that wants to see emissions of electric vehicles vs gasoline vehicles, check out: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2 Seems like a reasonable comparison. They're comparing a user-selected electric vehicle to "Average New Gasoline Vehicle". Clicking on "About this Calculation" they're assuming 27 mpg for the gasoline comparison vehicle with a factor of 1.25 added for production and transportation of gasoline. Myths about electric vehicles addressed here: https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
- ZeroGravitas 3y agoSlightly more detailed info is available here: https://www.carboncounter.com/#!/explore https://www.carboncounter.com/#!/explore (note you have to go into the settings to change various assumptions, like what state, number of miles driven per year and much more)
- tekla 3y agoUnion supporters vs elite environmentalists. I'm going to get a ton of popcorn for this one.