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Defecting from North Korea is now harder
- mikequinlan 3y agohttps://archive.ph/UXyGN https://archive.ph/UXyGN
- mahkoh 3y agoAndroid 13: This site can’t provide a secure connection archive.ph uses an unsupported protocol. ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH
- a1o 3y agoCuriously it's working fine on iPhone Safari.
- Wistar 3y agoAlso on ipad
- cmrx64 3y agouse https://archive.is/UXyGN https://archive.is/UXyGN as an alternative, idk why people drop "phake" links ;)
- robobro 3y agoNot helpful for you, but works fine for me on my PC, if that helps anyone else.
- politelemon 3y agoWorks on Firefox
- arcanemachiner 3y agoAre you using CloudFlare for your DNS (i.e. 1.1.1.1)? The archive URLs (ph, is, today) used to block requests from them for some reason (and possibly still do). EDIT: Apparently the issue was resolved in 2022 (on mobile and gotta run so can't link wiki page).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kelnos 3y agoI see this too. I'm using Firefox, and 1.1.1.1 for my DNS, and get SSL_ERROR_NO_CYPHER_OVERLAP in Firefox, and the same error you do in Chromium. Curl also fails with a similar error. 1.1.1.1, 8.8.8.8 (Google's DNS), and 9.9.9.9 (Quad9) all resolve archive.ph to the same IP address for me, 89.253.237.217. If I get on a VPN (Mullvad, exit in Los Angeles, CA, USA), I get a different address for archive.ph (41.77.143.21), which works fine. If I get off the VPN, but put that address in /etc/hosts, it still works. Reverse DNS on 89.253.237.217 (no VPN) gives me "example.spb.ru", while for 41.77.143.21 (with VPN) it's "host.41.77.143.21.binaryracks.net". If I get back on the VPN, and put the Russian IP in /etc/hosts, it works as well. So I wonder if my ISP (Comcast) is interfering with TLS negotiation when attempting to access some hosts, and perhaps this is related to Russian sanctions, or just some other Russia-related blocking? Anyhow, try putting: 41.77.143.21 archive.ph in your /etc/hosts file (not sure if there is an equivalent on Android), and see if that helps.
- yycc9866tfbvxd 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lwhalen 3y ago...wat
- golergka 3y ago[flagged]
- palata 3y agoDid you mean "authoritarian" regimes? Communism doesn't imply the same things.
- wutheringh 3y ago[dead]
- czechdeveloper 3y agoGiven that we never saw at scale other than soviet style communism, communism and soviet style communism is being used interchangeably.
- phatskat 3y ago“Soviet style communism” quickly became authoritarianism, especially under Stalin. He was communist in title only imo, with a focus on genocide and foolhardily believing that eliminating people with actual education in their fields and replacing them with “the commoners” was somehow good for the country because it looked communist.
- boeingUH60 3y ago
- abstractbill 3y agoIf you want to try to help, Liberty In North Korea is a charity I donate to: https://libertyinnorthkorea.org/ https://libertyinnorthkorea.org/
- karaterobot 3y agoThat was harrowing. There were a couple things I didn't understand: 1. What changed about China's surveillance systems or procedures to make them ~20x more effective at catching refugees in a couple years? 2. There's a bit about how North Korean refugees can apply for asylum in South Korea. I was under the impression (from Barbara Demick's book Nothing to Envy) that all North Koreans are more or less granted asylum by default. My recollection is that she put it even more strongly in her book: that SK in effect treated fleeing North Korean citizens as de facto citizens of South Korea, because they are meant to be one country. Is the asylum process mentioned here a rubber stamp, or did the process get more strict? Would a refugee from North Korea ever be refused asylum in South Korea?
- BoxFour 3y ago1. The article briefly discusses the impact of COVID, highlighting China's implementation of supplementary measures and limitations during this period. It is evident that having knowledge of individuals' travel destinations would undoubtedly assist in contact tracing efforts. However, as the article states it can also be used for malicious exploitation. 2. If your question is about why they go to Thailand instead of stopping in Laos: Thailand is reluctant to repatriate individuals back to North Korea, while Laos does not share the same reluctance. For the more general question: It is understandable that South Korea would scrutinize refugees to some extent to prevent the infiltration of espionage agents and similar threats.
- mardifoufs 3y ago>It is evident that having knowledge of individuals' travel destinations would undoubtedly assist in contact tracing efforts. Any evidence for that? Actually, any evidence that contact tracing has actually had any benefits wherever it has been tried? I'm sure it helps at very, very early stages of a pandemic, and even then depending on which virus we are trying to trace... But I'd like to see actual proof that it helps for pandemics like COVID. Otherwise it is such an easy way to implement mass surveillance, that requiring very very thorough proof that it actually helps is the bare minimum. This story is proof of that.
- HannibalLecter 3y ago[dead]
- NelsonMinar 3y agoFor more on what it's like being a North Korean software hacker working for the state, listen to the Lazarus Heist podcast. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads The whole thing is good but IIRC season 1, episodes 5 and 6 are the ones most specifically about what it's like to be a North Korean software engineer in China stealing money online.
- boeingUH60 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ThisIsNowhere 3y ago[flagged]
- dang 3y agoCould you please not use HN primarily for political and ideological battle? Your account is showing a clear pattern of that already, and we have to ban such accounts. Lots of past explanation at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme.... Also, please don't cross into personal attack. We ban accounts that do that as well. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- waffleiron 3y agoDang, the post this person is replying to is starting an ideological battle.
- dang 3y agoOk, I've replied there too.
- qsort 3y agoRecent article about this: https://acoup.blog/2023/07/07/collections-the-status-quo-coalition/ https://acoup.blog/2023/07/07/collections-the-status-quo-coa...
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- fndex 3y agoI'm not saying North Korea is a paradise or anything, but the country is technically still at war with the South Korea, which is heavily backed by the US. I wonder how much can be trusted from a NY Times(a US media company) article written by the "Seoul bureau chief for The New York Times".
- sharikous 3y agoYou are perfectly right. Still "not a paradise" is an exaggerated euphemism once you look at available data (not only American).
- fndex 3y agoAbsolutely. I would definitely not like to live or even visit there. I just think that every story has 2 sides, and we don't hear the other side very often.
- tensor 3y agoI absolutely despise this "every story has two sides" quip. No, every story doesn't have two sides. Yes, every story has multiple versions full of complete bullshit, but when we talk about a "side" we mean a reputable reliable side, and it is not the case that every story has two equally debatable and reputable sides. Sometimes a spade is a spade.
- mardifoufs 3y agoReputable, reliable (tm) American sources also led to a million deaths in Iraq based on what turned out to be false premises. Yet your very own logic would've called "a spade a spade" and would've meant actually believing Iraq had usable WMDs because I mean, that's just the hard truth! Every reliable source on your side said so! Who would even believe Iraqi/arabic media that shouted for a year that Iraq didn't have them, over prestigious and western institutions like the NYT! I have absolutely no doubt that North Korea is hell in earth, but there is a very very very good reason to say that every story has two sides. But maybe you just haven't experienced being the victim of "the reputable side" lying without any consequences. As a Muslim that grew up during the war on terror, I can't really say the same.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ez_mmk 3y agoRecently read the book Escape from camp 13 I think it gives a good insight how life is in North Korea can recommend it
- ornornor 3y agoIt was harrowing.
- bitsinthesky 3y agoAny details you can share? Sounds interesting, but I probably won't get around to reading it.
- samstave 3y agoThe Yeonmi Park interview on Joe Rogan is FN nuts ; https://open.spotify.com/episode/0G5o6GYjWgbSvKG3W2W2xO https://open.spotify.com/episode/0G5o6GYjWgbSvKG3W2W2xO https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+rogan+north+korea+podcast+episode https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+rogan+north...
- law_enforcement 3y agoMs Park has gone from tragic and respected refugee, to fullout lunatic being caught in all kind of lies. I feel genuinely sad for her. Find the early interviews with her, without the plastic surgery (mentioning this because of timeline, not for judgement). You will see a different person.
- samstave 3y agoWOW I had no idea - after the first interview, I didnt follow her in any regard... so I had no idea... But - I did have a secret thought when I first saw the interview on Rogan, that the reason she was largely given credence and airtime was her atractive looks... Based on your comment, she might be a demented sociopath along the same ilk as Elizabeth Holmes. (who thought getting pregnant would keep her out of prison)
- treme 3y agoAt least the new president of SK won't return defectors to NK to appease KJU like his predecessor president Moon. https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/02/28/national/northKorea/Moon-Jaein-government-North-Korean-fishermen-Forced-repatriation/20230228133404941.html https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/02/28/national/nor...
- HDMI_Cable 3y agoWow, that was absolutely harrowing. Easily the most emotionally powerful thing I've read in the NYTimes (or any other major newspaper) in a while. It really puts into perspective just how horrible the conditions are for these people; it's easy to hear about NK in the news, or hear about defectors, and think little of it except for "what a shame", but this really puts into context the sheer inhumanity of the situation, the complacency of the Chinese government, and the depraved acts—like that of the North Korean woman and the police officer—that people can do to other, vulnerable, people.
- noah_buddy 3y agoThe Chinese government is beyond complicit. It’s active policy to find and capture these people, then send them back to NK. That’s why satellite countries are even intimidated into sending them back.
- Waterluvian 3y agoThe horror of when humans are seen as a renewable natural resource.
- YLYvYkHeB2NRNT 3y ago[flagged]
- nojvek 3y agoPaywall less link? Happy to pay $1 for article but absolutely won’t get into a subscription. Unsubscribing from NY times is a nightmare.
- lisperato 3y agoopening the article link with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) let me read it without the paywall. thought it's in a terminal so goodbye images or css
- dewey 3y agoThe archive link bypasses the paywall: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36654027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36654027
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- julesallen 3y agoIf you haven't done it recently it's not the nightmare that it was. These days you say you want to cancel, they'll ask you "would you pay $X?", you say no and you're out.
- AbrahamParangi 3y agoNorth Korea exists because 5 years after the US liberated China from Japanese oppression, the communist Chinese declared war against the US lead UN forces in South Korea. Fairly wild, in retrospect.
- More-nitors 3y ago+ PRC sending back escapees back to NK PRC should give the escapees the right to travel, instead of deporting. I expect a lot of wumaos to resort to whataboutisms completely unrelated to the right-to-travel / right-to-asylum / right-to-immigration / etc
- kelnos 3y agoPRC restricts the right to travel of its own citizens; seems utterly unsurprising they'd give North Koreans even less. China has a vested interest in NK remaining a viable country; again, seems unsurprising that they'd do this. "Should" is aspirational. I agree with you in what China should be doing, but of course they won't.
- l3mure 3y agoIt's not particularly wild because the South Korean government was almost entirely fascist collaborators who had run the colonial government for Japan, and who were reinstalled by mass violence and the crushing of dissent, with US approval. The SK government killed several hundred thousand of their own citizens, see the pictures of the Bodo League massacre taken by American officers for example. [1] > Estimates of the death toll vary. Historians and experts on the Korean War estimate that the full total ranges from at least 60,000–110,000 (Kim Dong-choon, who stated that this was likely a very conservative estimate) to 200,000 (Park Myung-lim). > The massacre was committed by the government forces of president Syngman Rhee and falsely blamed on the communists led by North Korean leader Kim Il Sung. The South Korean government made efforts to conceal the massacre for four decades. Survivors were forbidden by the government from revealing it, under threat of being treated as communist sympathizers; public revelation carried with it the threat of torture and death. Moreover, the Chinese did not enter the war until UN forces had driven all the way to the Manchurian border, along with regular "accidental" cross-border air attacks. MacArthur, Kai-shek, and Rhee all fully desired war with China and were hoping to escalate the conflict. I've posted these quotes before, copied below: [2] > In the fall of 1946, the US military authorized elections to an interim legislature for southern Korea, but the results were clearly fraudulent. Even General Hodge privately wrote that right-wing "strong-arm" methods had been used to control the vote. The winners were almost all rightists, including Rhee supporters, even though a survey by the American military government that summer had found that 70 percent of 8,453 southern Koreans polled said they supported socialism, 7 percent communism, and only 14 percent capitalism. [...] > Chung Koo-Hun, the observant young student of the late 1940s, said of the villagers' attitude: "The Americans simply re-employed the pro-Japanese Koreans whom the people hated." [...] > Seventy of the 115 top Korean officials in the Seoul administration in 1947 had held office during the Japanese occupation. > In the southern city of Taegu, people verged on starvation. When 10,000 demonstrators rallied on October 1, 1946, police opened fire, killing many. Vengeful crowds then seized and killed policeman, and the US military declared martial law. The violence spread across the provinces, peasants murdering government officials, landlords, and especially police, detested as holdovers from Japanese days. American troops joined the police in suppressing the uprisings. Together they killed uncounted hundreds of Koreans. > American anthropologist Cornelius Osgood, spending much of 1947 in a village west of Seoul, watched as police carried young men off to jail by the truckload. A "mantle of fear" had fallen over once peaceful valleys, he wrote. The word "communist," he said, "seemed to mean 'just any young man of a village.'" On August 7, 1947, the US military government outlawed the southern communists, the Korean Worker's Party. Denied a peaceful political route, more and more leftist militants chose an armed struggle for power. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre [2] - quotes from The Bridge at No Gun Ri [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_uprising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_uprising [4] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju_Uprising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju_Uprising (note that this was in 1980, under a different dictator that the US also backed)
- Der_Einzige 3y agoI really wish that bill Clinton could have brokered a deal with china (right before NK got nukes) which would have done a two-pronged invasion with the assurances that China would control all of NK as a direct puppet state. A Chinese direct puppet state would be far superior to the current situation.
- eunos 3y agoClinton planned to have a kind of thaw with NK (before they had nuke), maybe using Vietnam thaw model. Post 94 GOP killed the plan.
- severino 3y agoWell, that didn't work, but there's still time for a similar deal with China in regards to Taiwan.
- knodi123 3y agoTo save them from....?
- freddyfred 3y ago[flagged]
- NSMutableSet 3y agoThis could have never happened because it would have meant sacrificing Seoul.
- jdthedisciple 3y agoHow are they allowed Telegram if they're constantly being surveilled (including, I assume, their phones)?
- dtx1 3y agoI wonder how many more decades of suffering it will take for the NK People to finally rid themselves of their government. Or perhaps it's at a point were the indoctrination is so complete and the control of the government so absolute that it is essentially stable forever.
- srvmshr 3y agoHuman spirit of being independent and free is a feeling which cannot be caged forever. Kingdoms and dictatorships have happened and fallen before. This too shall - when a certain breaking point is reached, where the human suffering will exceed the indoctrination that it will be impossible to ignore the living conditions anymore. It is a ticking time bomb on the Kim dynasty.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoNK would collapse in a month if the CCP cut them off from resources. NM can't generate what is necessary for their own survival because they have implemented their own torture chamber of a nation.
- Avlin67 3y agoeven worse : my chinese wife saying this is all fake...