5 ms·

Anyone surprised about the setup? Most of the people seem to be using nice chairs (good) but they are using laptops placed directly on top of their desks. So th

Anyone surprised about the setup? Most of the people seem to be using nice chairs (good) but they are using laptops placed directly on top of their desks. So there is no “flat” line between their eyes and their screens. Check out their necks! Holding that posture for 5h/day, 5days/week must be painful and have long standing effects. I know the pic is about a hackathon… but I have seen regular workplaces that look exactly the same.

Waterluvian 3y ago
That whole room is designed like an office set from some dystopian movie. Employee indexing is quite convenient though, when you arrange them in a matrix like that.
fouc 3y ago
Back then in 2017 it wasn't that common for people to have a foldable laptop stand in their bags. Nowadays I would expect more people to be using something like a Roost stand or Nexstand. Especially if they regularly work from random cafes or coworking spaces.
- rcarr 3y ago
  The problem is now you have to carry another keyboard and mouse in addition to the one you're already carrying with your laptop. The ideal portable ergo solution is something like: - Any small portable computer e.g Phone with Samsung DEX/RaspberryPi/Steam Deck - Custom split bluetooth keyboard e.g Corne, Ferris Sweep - Magic Trackpad or mouse - AR Glasses (Viture, NReal Air) - Large capacity power bank (imuto would be my recommendation). Alternatively a good charger like the Zendure Passport series. It's less elegant as you're going to have a minimum of two cables involved (ar glasses to computer, computer to power bank) but ends up being a similar amount of space/weight, just distributed differently. You may argue it's heavier because of the power bank but if I'm taking my computer anywhere I'm normally taking my power bank as well because you can't rely on there being a seat near a plug in a lot of places.
  - mwexler 3y ago
    All makes sense but the AR glasses. What role do they play for your work?
    - swores 3y ago
      I'm not OP but in their list the glasses are obviously acting as the computer screen they'd be working on, chosen because they're smaller and lighter than carrying an actual monitor around with you.
      - rcarr 3y ago
        This. I've tried different monitors, different monitor heights, keyboards, chairs etc and I would inevitably end up hunching over my keyboard to the point where I was worried I was getting the beginnings of kyphosis. AR glasses have eliminated that as the monitor now moves with me. If you get tired in one position, you can look up and the monitor is now on the ceiling, or look down and it is now on the floor. The split keyboard also helps a lot. I was super sceptical about VR/AR until I tried them but they really are the perfect solution for people who are suffering from this. The only downside is that you have to trade some screen resolution as all the current offerings are 1080p but I think it will only be a couple of years until we get 1440p and then 3 years after that I think we'll get 4k.
        swores 3y ago
        Which are you using & do you recommend them?
        rcarr 3y ago
        I 100% recommend them, especially if you're conscious about your posture. Some people can't get over the 1080p, personally I just stick the global font size up one level larger in the settings and use browser/text editor at 110% and find it fine. It is really, really fun to lay in your bed and watch a movie on your ceiling. Or to play games on a Steam Deck on a big screen wherever you are. I've got a pair of both the Xreal Air and the Viture and I think I'm going to sell the XReal Air and keep the Viture. Reasons why, in order of importance: - XReal Air give me a weird, sharp pinching pain on the side of my head after a while. It's weird because it comes out of nowhere and it is quite a sharp pain that is difficult to ignore but if you wear a thin polyester running headband underneath it completely goes away. I don't really want to wear a headband, even a thin one, just to use my AR glasses, so this is a major win for the Viture which doesn't suffer from this problem. - Viture has a proprietary magnetic cable whereas XReal uses a USB-C cable that slots into the end of the arm. Normally, I would be all about the reusable standard but in this case I'm all about the magnetic cable, for the same reason people like the MagSafe charger on the MacBook. It's very easy to forget you're tethered with these things, move, and end up yanking the cable. With the Viture this is less of a worry because it will disconnect, but with the XReal it's going to get taut and yank either your machine and/or the glasses. There's a lot of photos of people with cracked arms on the XReal reddit and I strongly suspect this is a major contributing reason though people try and claim otherwise. - Following on from the above, more thought seems to have been put into the design and the ecosystem with Viture in comparison to XReal. Even the Viture carrying case and packaging* are more premium than the XRreal. The nose pads are far easier to swap out and there's four heights compared to the Xreal's three. The prescription glasses attachment just magnetically snaps to the glasses rather than fiddling about like the Xreal. There's an accessory cable available to provide power to your device and allow the glasses to connect at the same time (essential for the Steam Deck which has only 1 usb-c port). There's a neckband accessory thing which I could see catching on as the main way consumers use these things. In contrast, the Xreal just have an accessory called the Beam, which doesn't really offer anything other than wireless connection to your computer (still have a wire between the glasses and the beam), 6Dof and 4 hours of battery which doesn't really add anything for me. The Beam does solve the yanking issue mentioned above because you're meant to wear it on your person. - Viture are slightly brighter and have a really cool electrochromic film feature that essentially darkens the glasses when you're in a bright environment in order to see things better. - The XReal screen is slightly larger than the Viture, but the Viture seems slightly sharper than the Xreal, especially when you get the myopia dials right. These dials aren't the greatest, and I think if you're short sighted you're probably best off just buying the prescription lens that snap to the frame. - Xreal have a halo of light around the perimeter of the screen. I can ignore it but it is annoying when I see it. The Viture have no such halo, but the very top and very bottom of the screen can sometimes blur, I'm assuming due to light leakage as I'm definitely using the right nosepads as the entire screen is in view. To me, Viture are the superior product, but the problem they have at this point is that the Xreal have first mover advantage. Viture have only recently started shipping wheras Xreal have sold over 200,000 units. A lot of people with Steam Decks also have Xreal glasses so there's a lot of momentum for them in the gaming community. There's a possibility that it might be a VHS/Betamax scenario where the better format ends up losing, but hopefully Viture will be able to gain some ground. There are also some other companies on the market like Rokid, which are meant to be technically better than either Viture or Xreal, but the aesthetics are appalling. With the Viture and the Xreal, they look like Ray-Ban Wayfarers so you can get away with wearing them in public whereas the Rokid look like something out of a bad 90s spy movie. I also think it's only a matter of time until Samsung and Google get in on the action and release something. I think Apple are going to be super late to the party like they were with smart speakers, presumably because they're not going to want to cannibalise Vision Pro unless they have to. I think it will end up being a HomePod/HomePod mini situation, where they reluctantly release the cheaper one and that ends up being the one people actually buy. I reckon it's probably going to be 4 maybe even 5 years before we see anything from them but I might be wrong. I think you might even see all the major TV manufacturers try and release something because I think it's going to seriously eat into their market, to the point where I think TVs might not even exist in 20 years time. I also think cinemas might be seriously fucked. *The packaging has a kind of "Falcon wing door" mechanism to open it that I've never really seen on anything before, it is pretty cool as far as packaging goes.
IceWreck 3y ago
As a very recent grad, the hackathons I've attended are usually more chaotic than this but the situation regarding viewing angles is the same. You cant be bothered to bring an entire monitor, or even stands to the event. Some venues provide a monitor, but thats usally one per team.
- TimMeade 3y ago
  That kills me. People will not spend 10 minutes setting up a good work environment when they will use it for a few days. If I possibly can and I remote work i setup at least a 27" 4k monitor and my 12' iPad as a second monitor with the laptop on the stand as the third. Productivity demands it. And of course separate keyboard and trackpad. If somewhere for 3 or 4 days I'll ship things if needed. Well worth the 10 minutes.
  - mbrameld 3y ago
    > at least a 27" 4k monitor and my 12' iPad It's hard enough traveling with a 27 inch monitor, there's no way I'm lugging a 12 foot iPad through the airports!
    - rokob 3y ago
      Nice
xwdv 3y ago
Comfortable viewing angle is actual about 15 degrees downward, where the eye muscles can rest. You can achieve this by tilting your laptop screen farther back. There is no inherent reason for your neck and back to be anything but straight up. People just have weak necks from insufficient exposure to neck exercises, which are fairly difficult to perform without some specialized equipment. Doing face pulls will help maintain more upright posture. I recommend starting your day off with 5 sets of 12 each morning to get you primed for the day. Anecdotally, I have found a correlation between hackathon winners and proper posture. Also some of the best developers I’ve seen work with proper posture.
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  If you have your neck and back straight and your eyes angled 15 degrees down, wouldn’t the screen have to be like 3-4 feet away to point directly at your eyes?
  - swores 3y ago
    Why? Do you mean assuming using a laptop screen and not raising it higher than the desk?
    - bandyaboot 3y ago
      Yeah, that’s what I was envisioning. There hadn’t been any mention of raising the laptop, just tilting the screen back, but maybe that part should have been obvious. I very rarely work from the laptop screen, so I wouldn’t think to bother with that.
- croes 3y ago
  The rise of smartphone didn't help either.
lm28469 3y ago
Half of tech workers look like goblins for this reason. I know 80+ years old with better posture than most 20 something tech workers
rcarr 3y ago
This is one of the main reasons I think AR glasses are going to be ubiquitous within ten years.
- constantly 3y ago
  Hackathons in Ukraine are the reasons AR glasses are going to be ubiquitous? I don’t see the connection.

Waterluvian 3y ago

That whole room is designed like an office set from some dystopian movie. Employee indexing is quite convenient though, when you arrange them in a matrix like that.

fouc 3y ago

Back then in 2017 it wasn't that common for people to have a foldable laptop stand in their bags. Nowadays I would expect more people to be using something like a Roost stand or Nexstand. Especially if they regularly work from random cafes or coworking spaces.

rcarr 3y ago
The problem is now you have to carry another keyboard and mouse in addition to the one you're already carrying with your laptop. The ideal portable ergo solution is something like: - Any small portable computer e.g Phone with Samsung DEX/RaspberryPi/Steam Deck - Custom split bluetooth keyboard e.g Corne, Ferris Sweep - Magic Trackpad or mouse - AR Glasses (Viture, NReal Air) - Large capacity power bank (imuto would be my recommendation). Alternatively a good charger like the Zendure Passport series. It's less elegant as you're going to have a minimum of two cables involved (ar glasses to computer, computer to power bank) but ends up being a similar amount of space/weight, just distributed differently. You may argue it's heavier because of the power bank but if I'm taking my computer anywhere I'm normally taking my power bank as well because you can't rely on there being a seat near a plug in a lot of places.
- mwexler 3y ago
  All makes sense but the AR glasses. What role do they play for your work?
  - swores 3y ago
    I'm not OP but in their list the glasses are obviously acting as the computer screen they'd be working on, chosen because they're smaller and lighter than carrying an actual monitor around with you.
    - rcarr 3y ago
      This. I've tried different monitors, different monitor heights, keyboards, chairs etc and I would inevitably end up hunching over my keyboard to the point where I was worried I was getting the beginnings of kyphosis. AR glasses have eliminated that as the monitor now moves with me. If you get tired in one position, you can look up and the monitor is now on the ceiling, or look down and it is now on the floor. The split keyboard also helps a lot. I was super sceptical about VR/AR until I tried them but they really are the perfect solution for people who are suffering from this. The only downside is that you have to trade some screen resolution as all the current offerings are 1080p but I think it will only be a couple of years until we get 1440p and then 3 years after that I think we'll get 4k.
      - swores 3y ago
        Which are you using & do you recommend them?
        rcarr 3y ago
        I 100% recommend them, especially if you're conscious about your posture. Some people can't get over the 1080p, personally I just stick the global font size up one level larger in the settings and use browser/text editor at 110% and find it fine. It is really, really fun to lay in your bed and watch a movie on your ceiling. Or to play games on a Steam Deck on a big screen wherever you are. I've got a pair of both the Xreal Air and the Viture and I think I'm going to sell the XReal Air and keep the Viture. Reasons why, in order of importance: - XReal Air give me a weird, sharp pinching pain on the side of my head after a while. It's weird because it comes out of nowhere and it is quite a sharp pain that is difficult to ignore but if you wear a thin polyester running headband underneath it completely goes away. I don't really want to wear a headband, even a thin one, just to use my AR glasses, so this is a major win for the Viture which doesn't suffer from this problem. - Viture has a proprietary magnetic cable whereas XReal uses a USB-C cable that slots into the end of the arm. Normally, I would be all about the reusable standard but in this case I'm all about the magnetic cable, for the same reason people like the MagSafe charger on the MacBook. It's very easy to forget you're tethered with these things, move, and end up yanking the cable. With the Viture this is less of a worry because it will disconnect, but with the XReal it's going to get taut and yank either your machine and/or the glasses. There's a lot of photos of people with cracked arms on the XReal reddit and I strongly suspect this is a major contributing reason though people try and claim otherwise. - Following on from the above, more thought seems to have been put into the design and the ecosystem with Viture in comparison to XReal. Even the Viture carrying case and packaging* are more premium than the XRreal. The nose pads are far easier to swap out and there's four heights compared to the Xreal's three. The prescription glasses attachment just magnetically snaps to the glasses rather than fiddling about like the Xreal. There's an accessory cable available to provide power to your device and allow the glasses to connect at the same time (essential for the Steam Deck which has only 1 usb-c port). There's a neckband accessory thing which I could see catching on as the main way consumers use these things. In contrast, the Xreal just have an accessory called the Beam, which doesn't really offer anything other than wireless connection to your computer (still have a wire between the glasses and the beam), 6Dof and 4 hours of battery which doesn't really add anything for me. The Beam does solve the yanking issue mentioned above because you're meant to wear it on your person. - Viture are slightly brighter and have a really cool electrochromic film feature that essentially darkens the glasses when you're in a bright environment in order to see things better. - The XReal screen is slightly larger than the Viture, but the Viture seems slightly sharper than the Xreal, especially when you get the myopia dials right. These dials aren't the greatest, and I think if you're short sighted you're probably best off just buying the prescription lens that snap to the frame. - Xreal have a halo of light around the perimeter of the screen. I can ignore it but it is annoying when I see it. The Viture have no such halo, but the very top and very bottom of the screen can sometimes blur, I'm assuming due to light leakage as I'm definitely using the right nosepads as the entire screen is in view. To me, Viture are the superior product, but the problem they have at this point is that the Xreal have first mover advantage. Viture have only recently started shipping wheras Xreal have sold over 200,000 units. A lot of people with Steam Decks also have Xreal glasses so there's a lot of momentum for them in the gaming community. There's a possibility that it might be a VHS/Betamax scenario where the better format ends up losing, but hopefully Viture will be able to gain some ground. There are also some other companies on the market like Rokid, which are meant to be technically better than either Viture or Xreal, but the aesthetics are appalling. With the Viture and the Xreal, they look like Ray-Ban Wayfarers so you can get away with wearing them in public whereas the Rokid look like something out of a bad 90s spy movie. I also think it's only a matter of time until Samsung and Google get in on the action and release something. I think Apple are going to be super late to the party like they were with smart speakers, presumably because they're not going to want to cannibalise Vision Pro unless they have to. I think it will end up being a HomePod/HomePod mini situation, where they reluctantly release the cheaper one and that ends up being the one people actually buy. I reckon it's probably going to be 4 maybe even 5 years before we see anything from them but I might be wrong. I think you might even see all the major TV manufacturers try and release something because I think it's going to seriously eat into their market, to the point where I think TVs might not even exist in 20 years time. I also think cinemas might be seriously fucked. *The packaging has a kind of "Falcon wing door" mechanism to open it that I've never really seen on anything before, it is pretty cool as far as packaging goes.

IceWreck 3y ago

As a very recent grad, the hackathons I've attended are usually more chaotic than this but the situation regarding viewing angles is the same. You cant be bothered to bring an entire monitor, or even stands to the event. Some venues provide a monitor, but thats usally one per team.

TimMeade 3y ago
That kills me. People will not spend 10 minutes setting up a good work environment when they will use it for a few days. If I possibly can and I remote work i setup at least a 27" 4k monitor and my 12' iPad as a second monitor with the laptop on the stand as the third. Productivity demands it. And of course separate keyboard and trackpad. If somewhere for 3 or 4 days I'll ship things if needed. Well worth the 10 minutes.
- mbrameld 3y ago
  > at least a 27" 4k monitor and my 12' iPad It's hard enough traveling with a 27 inch monitor, there's no way I'm lugging a 12 foot iPad through the airports!
  - rokob 3y ago
    Nice

xwdv 3y ago

Comfortable viewing angle is actual about 15 degrees downward, where the eye muscles can rest. You can achieve this by tilting your laptop screen farther back. There is no inherent reason for your neck and back to be anything but straight up. People just have weak necks from insufficient exposure to neck exercises, which are fairly difficult to perform without some specialized equipment. Doing face pulls will help maintain more upright posture. I recommend starting your day off with 5 sets of 12 each morning to get you primed for the day. Anecdotally, I have found a correlation between hackathon winners and proper posture. Also some of the best developers I’ve seen work with proper posture.

bandyaboot 3y ago
If you have your neck and back straight and your eyes angled 15 degrees down, wouldn’t the screen have to be like 3-4 feet away to point directly at your eyes?
- swores 3y ago
  Why? Do you mean assuming using a laptop screen and not raising it higher than the desk?
  - bandyaboot 3y ago
    Yeah, that’s what I was envisioning. There hadn’t been any mention of raising the laptop, just tilting the screen back, but maybe that part should have been obvious. I very rarely work from the laptop screen, so I wouldn’t think to bother with that.
croes 3y ago
The rise of smartphone didn't help either.

lm28469 3y ago

Half of tech workers look like goblins for this reason. I know 80+ years old with better posture than most 20 something tech workers

rcarr 3y ago

This is one of the main reasons I think AR glasses are going to be ubiquitous within ten years.

constantly 3y ago
Hackathons in Ukraine are the reasons AR glasses are going to be ubiquitous? I don’t see the connection.