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For those interested in seeing more about how these new 7040 APUs (Zen4 + RDNA3 "Phoenix") perform, Notebookcheck just reviewed a 7840HS (65W max TDP I believe)

by lhl 3y ago

For those interested in seeing more about how these new 7040 APUs (Zen4 + RDNA3 "Phoenix") perform, Notebookcheck just reviewed a 7840HS (65W max TDP I believe) minipc: https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-7840HS-performance-debut-Beelink-GTR7-mini-PC-review.730507.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-7840HS-performance... Although not Linux specific, the nice thing about Notebookcheck is they have a nice database of other CPUs/devices that you can easily compare against. ServeTheHome has been reviewing a lot of these minipcs as well, here's their review of another one w/ Linux compile times and a few other Linux benchmarks: https://www.servethehome.com/minisforum-um790-pro-review-big-upgrade-to-a-small-amd-system/3/ https://www.servethehome.com/minisforum-um790-pro-review-big... For those that don't know, the U, HS, and H chips are basically the same chip with slightly different bins and usually can have their TDP modified in BIOS, via Ryzen Master, or third party tools like RyzenAdj (Phoenix support: https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/pull/256 https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/pull/256) to perform pretty closely. (This generation the HX is a '7045' chip is closer to a desktop chip than a mobile APU)

brucethemoose2 3y ago
Notebookcheck is a saint. I have never seen such thorough, technical reviews of laptops anywhere else, much less so many of them. I really hope they stay alive in this video review age.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Their tech product news feed is also unparalleled. Definitely not for a lot of people, but for those who do want to see what's coming out for monitors, phones, tablets, laptops, et cetera, https://www.notebookcheck.net/News.152.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/News.152.0.html is seemingly the definitive place to be.
up6w6 3y ago
> usually can have their TDP modified in BIOS, via Ryzen Master, or third party tools like RyzenAdj (Phoenix support: https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/pull/256 https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/pull/256) to perform pretty closely. I didn't know about that. Do you have citations or benchmarks?
- lhl 3y ago
  A few years ago I did a bunch of poking w/ a 4800H, you can see the actual mechanics of using RyzenAdj. There are also Geekbench 5 benchmarks linked from the doc at different power limits which you can compare to 4800U devices on Geekbench's site: https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2020-MECHREVO-Code-01-PF5NU1G#linux-cpu-profiling-and-tuning https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2020-MECHREVO-Code-... Note, each laptop manufacturer may choose their different power limits (and like Intel, AMD's curves are largely driven by temperature, so dependent on cooling solution and other settings). This is a good summary of some of how Ryzen Mobile's power limiting works (actually, read that whole wiki if you're interested in the topic): https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/wiki/Renoir-Tuning-Guide https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/wiki/Renoir-Tuning-Guide I'd also look up "AMD PMF" (their equivalent of DPTF) which only recently made it's way to the Linux kernel (but of course, that will include loads of details anyone can look through): https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-PMF-CnQF-Linux-6.1 https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-PMF-CnQF-Linux-6.1
shmerl 3y ago
Do you have experience with Beelink mini PCs? Reviews about their company are kind of mixed, some are pretty bad saying they have almost no support.
- lhl 3y ago
  Most of these MiniPC companies like Beelink, Minisforum, Morefine, etc are small Shenzen-based operations so personally I wouldn't expect much in terms of support (whether it's BIOS updates or warranty). If you're going to get one, I'd recommend ordering from Amazon or somewhere local you can easily return it if it's DOA, or going for a more established brand w/ a local distributor/support (Asus, Gigabyte, HP, Lenovo all ship AMD minipc models).
  - shmerl 3y ago
    Yeah, I figured. Are there any good options with 7940HS?
  - paulmd 3y ago
    Also, while I know this is a personal values judgement, Intel does a pretty good job with the NUCs (at least the mainstream 4x4 line) and given the SFF form factor involved, there is value in being the "mainstream product". Things like good power management are not a given on competing products, I routinely see the "clones" coming in with 5-10w higher idle power (which is like, double) than the first-party product (most recently Atlas Canyon vs the third-party Tremont clones). Intel is selling to big corporate customers who care a lot about wasting 5W here and 10W there and they took the time to squeeze that. Also (and this is a more general problem) Intel actually took the time to make the wireless work properly. I've had good bluetooth on exactly three products: intel macbooks, apple silicon macbooks, and intel NUCs. This cuts across cheap/premium, even my Dell Latitude coffee lake laptop from my last job had problems - the keyboard would disconnect, or get stuck repeating a key over and over again. Part of it is that the Intel Wireless chipsets are notoriously bad... but Intel and Apple seem to be able to make them work, so.. To be clear I did have some occasional issues on my NUC but it was way way better than the laptop or any other machine I've ever used (including motherboard wifi with external antenna placed close, dongles on usb 2.0, dongles placed close, etc). On a USFF machine like a NUC that's kind of an important thing, the odds of users using wifi or bluetooth is much higher and it needs to be reliable. Finally, if you are ever planning to do anything custom/fancy it's potentially nice to have the standardized product. You can get things like plug an OpenUPS directly into the aux power header on the NUC (and again, Intel deserves credit for taking the time to consistently implement these things!) or put it in a HDPlex or Akasa chassis for fanless operation or upgrading it with a pcie card (which runs off the m.2 slot). There's just a ton more of those options available if you're the industry standard. It sucks, I really want to like the AMD stuff, and maybe it'd be fine just as a desktop replacement. But Intel is one of those cases where it's potentially worth it to spend slightly more for a slightly worse product and just accept that there is an unknown (but probably nonzero) amount of time and effort being saved for that expense, because you're buying a standard, fully-baked product.

by lhl 3y ago

brucethemoose2 3y ago

Notebookcheck is a saint. I have never seen such thorough, technical reviews of laptops anywhere else, much less so many of them. I really hope they stay alive in this video review age.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Their tech product news feed is also unparalleled. Definitely not for a lot of people, but for those who do want to see what's coming out for monitors, phones, tablets, laptops, et cetera, https://www.notebookcheck.net/News.152.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/News.152.0.html is seemingly the definitive place to be.

up6w6 3y ago

> usually can have their TDP modified in BIOS, via Ryzen Master, or third party tools like RyzenAdj (Phoenix support: https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/pull/256 https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/pull/256) to perform pretty closely. I didn't know about that. Do you have citations or benchmarks?

lhl 3y ago
A few years ago I did a bunch of poking w/ a 4800H, you can see the actual mechanics of using RyzenAdj. There are also Geekbench 5 benchmarks linked from the doc at different power limits which you can compare to 4800U devices on Geekbench's site: https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2020-MECHREVO-Code-01-PF5NU1G#linux-cpu-profiling-and-tuning https://github.com/lhl/linuxlaptops/wiki/2020-MECHREVO-Code-... Note, each laptop manufacturer may choose their different power limits (and like Intel, AMD's curves are largely driven by temperature, so dependent on cooling solution and other settings). This is a good summary of some of how Ryzen Mobile's power limiting works (actually, read that whole wiki if you're interested in the topic): https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/wiki/Renoir-Tuning-Guide https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/wiki/Renoir-Tuning-Guide I'd also look up "AMD PMF" (their equivalent of DPTF) which only recently made it's way to the Linux kernel (but of course, that will include loads of details anyone can look through): https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-PMF-CnQF-Linux-6.1 https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-PMF-CnQF-Linux-6.1

shmerl 3y ago

Do you have experience with Beelink mini PCs? Reviews about their company are kind of mixed, some are pretty bad saying they have almost no support.

lhl 3y ago
Most of these MiniPC companies like Beelink, Minisforum, Morefine, etc are small Shenzen-based operations so personally I wouldn't expect much in terms of support (whether it's BIOS updates or warranty). If you're going to get one, I'd recommend ordering from Amazon or somewhere local you can easily return it if it's DOA, or going for a more established brand w/ a local distributor/support (Asus, Gigabyte, HP, Lenovo all ship AMD minipc models).
- shmerl 3y ago
  Yeah, I figured. Are there any good options with 7940HS?
- paulmd 3y ago
  Also, while I know this is a personal values judgement, Intel does a pretty good job with the NUCs (at least the mainstream 4x4 line) and given the SFF form factor involved, there is value in being the "mainstream product". Things like good power management are not a given on competing products, I routinely see the "clones" coming in with 5-10w higher idle power (which is like, double) than the first-party product (most recently Atlas Canyon vs the third-party Tremont clones). Intel is selling to big corporate customers who care a lot about wasting 5W here and 10W there and they took the time to squeeze that. Also (and this is a more general problem) Intel actually took the time to make the wireless work properly. I've had good bluetooth on exactly three products: intel macbooks, apple silicon macbooks, and intel NUCs. This cuts across cheap/premium, even my Dell Latitude coffee lake laptop from my last job had problems - the keyboard would disconnect, or get stuck repeating a key over and over again. Part of it is that the Intel Wireless chipsets are notoriously bad... but Intel and Apple seem to be able to make them work, so.. To be clear I did have some occasional issues on my NUC but it was way way better than the laptop or any other machine I've ever used (including motherboard wifi with external antenna placed close, dongles on usb 2.0, dongles placed close, etc). On a USFF machine like a NUC that's kind of an important thing, the odds of users using wifi or bluetooth is much higher and it needs to be reliable. Finally, if you are ever planning to do anything custom/fancy it's potentially nice to have the standardized product. You can get things like plug an OpenUPS directly into the aux power header on the NUC (and again, Intel deserves credit for taking the time to consistently implement these things!) or put it in a HDPlex or Akasa chassis for fanless operation or upgrading it with a pcie card (which runs off the m.2 slot). There's just a ton more of those options available if you're the industry standard. It sucks, I really want to like the AMD stuff, and maybe it'd be fine just as a desktop replacement. But Intel is one of those cases where it's potentially worth it to spend slightly more for a slightly worse product and just accept that there is an unknown (but probably nonzero) amount of time and effort being saved for that expense, because you're buying a standard, fully-baked product.