4 ms·

> It is my understanding that proof of stake merely reduces the energy needs of the block chain at large by an order of magnitude or two. Try over three orders

> It is my understanding that proof of stake merely reduces the energy needs of the block chain at large by an order of magnitude or two. Try over three orders of magnitude. The old Ethereum chain consumed 78 TWh per year. The new Ethereum chain consumes 0.0026 TWh per year. For context, YouTube runs on 12 TWh per year. So the old Ethereum consumed the power of 6.5 YouTubes, and currently YouTube consumes the power of 4,615 new Ethereums. So you really can't be more wrong about Ethereum still being "extremely electricity-intensive". It's just disinformation at this point.

eleusys 3y ago
Well said.
jurynulifcation 3y ago
Can you provide a source for how this consumption is being measured?
- everfree 3y ago
  Can you provide a source for how proof of stake only reduces energy usage by "merely an order of magnitude or two"?
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    No. It's not something I truly care about. I did some back of the envelope math a year or two ago when I looked into proof of stake and then stopped looking into the space altogether after encountering some of the people in the space. That any amount of electricity is being consumed or any amount of e-waste is being generated for the the gambling hobby horse of a small handful of already wealthy individuals is pretty fucking stupid imo. So, having now established that people who don't care also don't have good sources, let's get back to you, somebody who does actually care. Do you have any sources? If not, why not? "Crypto has rotted my brain" is an acceptable answer, fyi.
    - everfree 3y ago
      I care about crypto (in both senses of cryptography and cryptocurrency), but the amount I care for this conversation is admittedly beginning to wane. There was already another thread where someone cited a source and then went back and forth with you for a bit about the source's potential biases. If you really wanted to estimate the energy consumption yourself, thus verifying all the sources, here's what you could do: * Sync a copy of the Ethereum blockchain. It should be pretty straightforward to tell if you have a good copy, because that's like, blockchain's whole "thing". * Pick out the "difficulty" field in the last proof-of-work block header, then divide it into the hashrate and power consumption of typical mining hardware at the time. This gives you the "before" consumption figure. * Pick out the total number of validators in the latest proof-of-stake block header. Remove validators that share withdrawal addresses, as they are run by the same entity and likely all run on a single piece of hardware (or few). * Multiply that number of validators by the typical hardware power consumption of an i5 desktop computer with an SSD, which is likely what most of them are running on. I'll leave that as an exercise for you to not do. > That any amount of electricity is being consumed or any amount of e-waste is being generated for the the gambling hobby horse of a small handful of already wealthy individuals is pretty fucking stupid imo. You must hate AAA gaming, then. Same wealthy people, same e-waste being created purely to shuffle pixels around and keep them from being bored. Crypto brought you and me together in this thread, and I'm sure you can agree that we're both entertained, right?

eleusys 3y ago

Well said.

jurynulifcation 3y ago

Can you provide a source for how this consumption is being measured?

everfree 3y ago
Can you provide a source for how proof of stake only reduces energy usage by "merely an order of magnitude or two"?
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  No. It's not something I truly care about. I did some back of the envelope math a year or two ago when I looked into proof of stake and then stopped looking into the space altogether after encountering some of the people in the space. That any amount of electricity is being consumed or any amount of e-waste is being generated for the the gambling hobby horse of a small handful of already wealthy individuals is pretty fucking stupid imo. So, having now established that people who don't care also don't have good sources, let's get back to you, somebody who does actually care. Do you have any sources? If not, why not? "Crypto has rotted my brain" is an acceptable answer, fyi.
  - everfree 3y ago
    I care about crypto (in both senses of cryptography and cryptocurrency), but the amount I care for this conversation is admittedly beginning to wane. There was already another thread where someone cited a source and then went back and forth with you for a bit about the source's potential biases. If you really wanted to estimate the energy consumption yourself, thus verifying all the sources, here's what you could do: * Sync a copy of the Ethereum blockchain. It should be pretty straightforward to tell if you have a good copy, because that's like, blockchain's whole "thing". * Pick out the "difficulty" field in the last proof-of-work block header, then divide it into the hashrate and power consumption of typical mining hardware at the time. This gives you the "before" consumption figure. * Pick out the total number of validators in the latest proof-of-stake block header. Remove validators that share withdrawal addresses, as they are run by the same entity and likely all run on a single piece of hardware (or few). * Multiply that number of validators by the typical hardware power consumption of an i5 desktop computer with an SSD, which is likely what most of them are running on. I'll leave that as an exercise for you to not do. > That any amount of electricity is being consumed or any amount of e-waste is being generated for the the gambling hobby horse of a small handful of already wealthy individuals is pretty fucking stupid imo. You must hate AAA gaming, then. Same wealthy people, same e-waste being created purely to shuffle pixels around and keep them from being bored. Crypto brought you and me together in this thread, and I'm sure you can agree that we're both entertained, right?