4 ms·

California k-12 public education has become a joke. Even the top rated schools are succeeding from students going to after school tutoring and not from the educ

California k-12 public education has become a joke. Even the top rated schools are succeeding from students going to after school tutoring and not from the education in the public institution. It’s appalling how California cares more about homelessness, undocumented immigrants, and Medicare over education. Education is the single biggest factor to driving social mobility of the poor to middle class, and middle class to wealthy. I can only hope that in 5-10 years a new set of voters shift focus to education being a top priority.

mimikatz 3y ago
More and more I get the feeling California doesn't care about the homelessness, undocumented immigrants, and Medicare. There are just a ton of grifters who make a lot of noise on the topics, but don't push for policies that would actually improve things. Or push for them in a way that is just more red tape that hinders actual results. Education is in the same bucket. Lots of noise from lots of people with bad ideas or bad implementations of ok ideas.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  The homelessness industrial complex is quite profitable.
  - slt2021 3y ago
    government bureacracy learned from the Military industrial complex (and Pentagon) how to leech $$$ from the government and keep problems alive to keep $$$ flowing
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Exactly why none of these problems ever get fixed. There's too much money in the status quo; if they actually fixed the problems a lot of people would have to find some other way to earn an income.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  they likely dedicate good amount of money, but overall corrupted and inefficient system doesn't allow to put these money at work.
Hydraulix989 3y ago
The bar for US public school education is abysmally low to begin with. One would have expected Silicon Valley to be better than that, not one of the worst in the country. Source: Someone from the Midwest who went to a public school
HWR_14 3y ago
> Education is the single biggest factor to driving social mobility of the poor to middle class, and middle class to wealthy Is it? Any evidence that supports the idea that the quality of K-12 education matters at all?
- jschveibinz 3y ago
  Good question, and it probably depends on what you read. Here is one report that suggests there is a correlation, but I would continue to gather data: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/thirteen-economic-facts-about-social-mobility-and-the-role-of-education/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/thirteen-economic-facts-a...
- pessimizer 3y ago
  We seem to expect it to fix poverty. We should fix poverty, and use public education to fix dumb kids.
  - blindriver 3y ago
    You fix poverty by educating children and letting them grow up in a safe area free from crime. Educated children get put on the right path in life and lift themselves out of poverty. That's how Asian countries like Japan and Korea pulled themselves out of poverty in the matter of decades. During the 1950s and 1960s, South Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world, and by the 1980s, was considered an economic miracle.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      The Soviets had a good public education system. No economic miracle. Japan's and Korea's economic miracles came from embracing free markets. The same thing happened in Vietnam and China. Free markets => prosperity, every time.
      - c_crank 3y ago
        But to have a functioning free market, you need a basic functioning legal system, so people exchanging goods and services don't get robbed.
jeffbee 3y ago
What gives you the impression that California prioritizes homelessness, immigrants, and medicare over education? The state spent $136 billion on k-12 education last year, making it far and away the largest spending program. Anti-homelessness programs typically get 1% that much, although recent years have been slightly more as the housing crisis worsens.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  > The state spent $136 billion on k-12 education is it state or local taxes?..
  - vkou 3y ago
    Pota-to, po-tato?
- bushbaba 3y ago
  California ranks no where near the top on dollars spent per student. Rankings are worse when you account for each states cost of living. https://www.learner.com/blog/states-that-spend-the-most-on-education https://www.learner.com/blog/states-that-spend-the-most-on-e...
superchroma 3y ago
I'm not sure any part of america has working education; across the board it seems to be a huge money sink that produces poor results. Gesturing to homelessness, immigrants and healthcare is clouding the issue. Those are real, pressing issues too, and it's not a binary choice of tackling one or the other.
david38 3y ago
This is false. My children went to top rated public school and my older daughter is about the graduate a year early from Berkeley in math.
- electriclove 3y ago
  Is their success due to their public school or due to their parent(s)?
Solvency 3y ago
"It’s appalling how California cares more about homelessness, undocumented immigrants, and Medicare over education." Can you explain what those subjects have to do with education and how one affects the other?
- bushbaba 3y ago
  Tldr k-12 education budget is smaller than what taxpayers are paying for homelessness, undocumented immigrants, and expanded Medi-Cal. Cutting costs in these areas could significantly bolster our K-12 budget. Homelessness programs take up significant budget. 636 million per year SF spends on homelessness, SFUSD’s budget is 1.28 billion. Cutting the homeless budget would allow for increased education spend. Undocumented immigrants make up ~10% the state population and are in the lowest tax paying bucket. On average just 1304$/undocumented immigrant of yearly tax revenue. So they are taking more social services than what they bring in. If California was more active in deporting them or enforcing tax collection practices, we’d have greater educational dollars per legal resident. Medi-Cal has 1/3rd the states population enrolled. This is significantly higher than many other states. This program takes up significant tax dollars. These tax dollars could instead be spent on public education.
pas 3y ago
Social issues and education are not separate. That's the problem. Most of the low-performing kids are from - you might not guess it - households that are in need of social support. Yes, there are some issues that can be demarcated as not intertwined with education. But of course homeless people can have kids, and now they are in the foster system, and that's likely worse than fixing the homelessness. And similarly, when poor kids or their parents have medical issues, which they almost surely will have, because they don't have the resources to have a healthy lifestyle, where do you think they will go? If they have to go to work to afford medication they won't continue their studies, or simply won't even apply for higher ed. The problem that voters should address is high costs, lack of efficiency, run of the mill corruption and so on. (But for this voters would need to accept actual cities with functioning transit system, not endless suburbs and highways around a few corporate skyscrapers. They'd need to face the actual problem of resource deficit that's needed to actually make some progress in closing the education and income gap of the disadvantaged, and so on.)

mimikatz 3y ago

More and more I get the feeling California doesn't care about the homelessness, undocumented immigrants, and Medicare. There are just a ton of grifters who make a lot of noise on the topics, but don't push for policies that would actually improve things. Or push for them in a way that is just more red tape that hinders actual results. Education is in the same bucket. Lots of noise from lots of people with bad ideas or bad implementations of ok ideas.

anonporridge 3y ago
The homelessness industrial complex is quite profitable.
- slt2021 3y ago
  government bureacracy learned from the Military industrial complex (and Pentagon) how to leech $$$ from the government and keep problems alive to keep $$$ flowing
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Exactly why none of these problems ever get fixed. There's too much money in the status quo; if they actually fixed the problems a lot of people would have to find some other way to earn an income.
riku_iki 3y ago
they likely dedicate good amount of money, but overall corrupted and inefficient system doesn't allow to put these money at work.

Hydraulix989 3y ago

The bar for US public school education is abysmally low to begin with. One would have expected Silicon Valley to be better than that, not one of the worst in the country. Source: Someone from the Midwest who went to a public school

HWR_14 3y ago

> Education is the single biggest factor to driving social mobility of the poor to middle class, and middle class to wealthy Is it? Any evidence that supports the idea that the quality of K-12 education matters at all?

jschveibinz 3y ago
Good question, and it probably depends on what you read. Here is one report that suggests there is a correlation, but I would continue to gather data: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/thirteen-economic-facts-about-social-mobility-and-the-role-of-education/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/thirteen-economic-facts-a...
pessimizer 3y ago
We seem to expect it to fix poverty. We should fix poverty, and use public education to fix dumb kids.
- blindriver 3y ago
  You fix poverty by educating children and letting them grow up in a safe area free from crime. Educated children get put on the right path in life and lift themselves out of poverty. That's how Asian countries like Japan and Korea pulled themselves out of poverty in the matter of decades. During the 1950s and 1960s, South Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world, and by the 1980s, was considered an economic miracle.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    The Soviets had a good public education system. No economic miracle. Japan's and Korea's economic miracles came from embracing free markets. The same thing happened in Vietnam and China. Free markets => prosperity, every time.
    - c_crank 3y ago
      But to have a functioning free market, you need a basic functioning legal system, so people exchanging goods and services don't get robbed.

jeffbee 3y ago

What gives you the impression that California prioritizes homelessness, immigrants, and medicare over education? The state spent $136 billion on k-12 education last year, making it far and away the largest spending program. Anti-homelessness programs typically get 1% that much, although recent years have been slightly more as the housing crisis worsens.

riku_iki 3y ago
> The state spent $136 billion on k-12 education is it state or local taxes?..
- vkou 3y ago
  Pota-to, po-tato?
bushbaba 3y ago
California ranks no where near the top on dollars spent per student. Rankings are worse when you account for each states cost of living. https://www.learner.com/blog/states-that-spend-the-most-on-education https://www.learner.com/blog/states-that-spend-the-most-on-e...

superchroma 3y ago

I'm not sure any part of america has working education; across the board it seems to be a huge money sink that produces poor results. Gesturing to homelessness, immigrants and healthcare is clouding the issue. Those are real, pressing issues too, and it's not a binary choice of tackling one or the other.

david38 3y ago

This is false. My children went to top rated public school and my older daughter is about the graduate a year early from Berkeley in math.

electriclove 3y ago
Is their success due to their public school or due to their parent(s)?

Solvency 3y ago

"It’s appalling how California cares more about homelessness, undocumented immigrants, and Medicare over education." Can you explain what those subjects have to do with education and how one affects the other?

bushbaba 3y ago
Tldr k-12 education budget is smaller than what taxpayers are paying for homelessness, undocumented immigrants, and expanded Medi-Cal. Cutting costs in these areas could significantly bolster our K-12 budget. Homelessness programs take up significant budget. 636 million per year SF spends on homelessness, SFUSD’s budget is 1.28 billion. Cutting the homeless budget would allow for increased education spend. Undocumented immigrants make up ~10% the state population and are in the lowest tax paying bucket. On average just 1304$/undocumented immigrant of yearly tax revenue. So they are taking more social services than what they bring in. If California was more active in deporting them or enforcing tax collection practices, we’d have greater educational dollars per legal resident. Medi-Cal has 1/3rd the states population enrolled. This is significantly higher than many other states. This program takes up significant tax dollars. These tax dollars could instead be spent on public education.

pas 3y ago

Social issues and education are not separate. That's the problem. Most of the low-performing kids are from - you might not guess it - households that are in need of social support. Yes, there are some issues that can be demarcated as not intertwined with education. But of course homeless people can have kids, and now they are in the foster system, and that's likely worse than fixing the homelessness. And similarly, when poor kids or their parents have medical issues, which they almost surely will have, because they don't have the resources to have a healthy lifestyle, where do you think they will go? If they have to go to work to afford medication they won't continue their studies, or simply won't even apply for higher ed. The problem that voters should address is high costs, lack of efficiency, run of the mill corruption and so on. (But for this voters would need to accept actual cities with functioning transit system, not endless suburbs and highways around a few corporate skyscrapers. They'd need to face the actual problem of resource deficit that's needed to actually make some progress in closing the education and income gap of the disadvantaged, and so on.)