27 ms·

And the way we use it also creating a bunch of carbon.

by themitigating 3y ago

c_crank 3y ago
In the sense that animals and human beings are big blobs of carbon, yes. Ethanol isn't the primary output of maize.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  The growing and processing of it uses large quantities of carbon inputs. Diesel and fertilizer.
  - c_crank 3y ago
    The use of those inputs isn't creating carbon, just transforming it. Carbon fueled fertilizer is also used for all other cereal crops under the sun.
    - superluserdo 3y ago
      >The use of those inputs isn't creating carbon, just transforming it It is though. Or if you like, it's transforming carbon from "in the ground" to "not in the ground", which is fundamentally the only thing that matters, since you're adding to a closed system.
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      If you're trying to tell me about the existence of the law of conservation of mass, I'm not sure what to tell you other than 'duh' The point I was making is that cash crop farming is not a self-contained system even if the earth as a whole mostly is. (Much) more carbon goes into its production than comes out in the crop. Most of that takes the form of operating machinery, but there's also the production of fertilizers, and also the incremental loss of carbon in topsoil through tillage and erosion. I am singling out maize (and, well, soy) because the scale of it is absolutely crazy; also on the whole most of the product isn't for direct human consumption (animal feed and ethanol). (Also BTW I work on software for running machinery which operates in those fields.) Anyways, this is intrinsic to farming, which is an extractive process. The question is how to more smartly manage it in the long run.
- tredre3 3y ago
  Ethanol will soon be the primary output of corn (it arguably already is). The current breakdown in the United States as of 2022 is: - 40% goes to ethanol production - 40% goes to livestock feed - rest is human consumption and misc industrial uses Source: https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/corn-and-other-feed-grains/feed-grains-sector-at-a-glance/ https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/corn-and-other-feed-gr...

And the way we use it also creating a bunch of carbon.

c_crank 3y ago

In the sense that animals and human beings are big blobs of carbon, yes. Ethanol isn't the primary output of maize.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
The growing and processing of it uses large quantities of carbon inputs. Diesel and fertilizer.
- c_crank 3y ago
  The use of those inputs isn't creating carbon, just transforming it. Carbon fueled fertilizer is also used for all other cereal crops under the sun.
  - superluserdo 3y ago
    >The use of those inputs isn't creating carbon, just transforming it It is though. Or if you like, it's transforming carbon from "in the ground" to "not in the ground", which is fundamentally the only thing that matters, since you're adding to a closed system.
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    If you're trying to tell me about the existence of the law of conservation of mass, I'm not sure what to tell you other than 'duh' The point I was making is that cash crop farming is not a self-contained system even if the earth as a whole mostly is. (Much) more carbon goes into its production than comes out in the crop. Most of that takes the form of operating machinery, but there's also the production of fertilizers, and also the incremental loss of carbon in topsoil through tillage and erosion. I am singling out maize (and, well, soy) because the scale of it is absolutely crazy; also on the whole most of the product isn't for direct human consumption (animal feed and ethanol). (Also BTW I work on software for running machinery which operates in those fields.) Anyways, this is intrinsic to farming, which is an extractive process. The question is how to more smartly manage it in the long run.
tredre3 3y ago
Ethanol will soon be the primary output of corn (it arguably already is). The current breakdown in the United States as of 2022 is: - 40% goes to ethanol production - 40% goes to livestock feed - rest is human consumption and misc industrial uses Source: https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/corn-and-other-feed-grains/feed-grains-sector-at-a-glance/ https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/corn-and-other-feed-gr...