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My understanding is that they use NFTs on the Ethereum chain for authentication. NFTs are still wildly damaging to the ecosystem, with how much electricity they

My understanding is that they use NFTs on the Ethereum chain for authentication. NFTs are still wildly damaging to the ecosystem, with how much electricity they demand. Their sole purpose is to be traded as chits in a series of wealth extractions, until some unfortunate sucker is left holding the bag on a worthless blob of data that (rightfully) nobody wants. You do not need Ethereum for auth. You do not even need Ethereum for anonymous without a 3rd party provider. I do not see what value this actually provides nor why it should come in this form. So I believe it is a reasonable assumption that it is in this form so the creators can get in on the scam-o-sphere that is Ethereum/NFT.

ews 3y ago
After the Ethereum merge, the Energy Usage of any ETH token is negligible. Do you have any source for this "NFTs are damaging because how much electricity they demand" or is just plain old Hacker News "Crypto Bad" fud?
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  Do you have any source for (a) how much electricity the blockchain requires after the merge and (b) whether there are any applications outside of gambling and scamming that can not be done otherwise?
  - noman-land 3y ago
    https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/
    - jurynulifcation 3y ago
      This is the definition of a self-interested source. How about you provide a resource that doesn't so immediately stand to profit from convincing others?
      - noman-land 3y ago
        Why don't you look at the software and do your own analysis.
        jurynulifcation 3y ago
        [flagged]
        everfree 3y ago
        [flagged]
        _svoh 3y ago
        [flagged]
        everfree 3y ago
        [flagged]
        jurynulifcation 3y ago
        [flagged]
        everfree 3y ago
        [flagged]
monero-xmr 3y ago
Ethereum is proof of stake and doesn’t use tons of energy. I get you have an axe to grind but it would be better in a thread about Ethereum tech rather than an application. You are being really annoying and against the spirit of HN.
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - monero-xmr 3y ago
    I find various sports, video games, and reality TV totally useless and waste of time, energy, and a scam on people’s limited time on this earth. Doesn’t mean I want it outlawed.
    - jurynulifcation 3y ago
      I never said I want it outlawed. That would deprive me of the clowns to laugh at.
  - kinakomochidayo 3y ago
    Electricity use was reduced by 99.98% with the transition to PoS
    - jurynulifcation 3y ago
      [dead]
  - DANmode 3y ago
    > yet to find an application beyond gambling and scamming. Besides the only immutable planet-scale consensus of history, of course. Good grief.
    - rcxdude 3y ago
      That's not an application. It's a technological result. It may or may not be applied for productive work (I'd say on the whole the negative results have outweighed the positive so far, especially looking at the ecosystem as a whole)
noman-land 3y ago
The electricity argument has been made moot a while ago with the switch the proof of stake. Not all NFTs need to be bought or sold. They can just as easily be used as membership tokens that are given away. Also, according to the website, only some of the communities will be locked behind NFTs. Others appear to be free to join just with an Ethereum account used as auth. I haven't used the service so I'm not going to defend it but it makes sense for web3 communities to base their auth around the tech they're already using, and that is crypto wallets. Everyone in the community already has crypto wallets so the friction to join is very low.
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  The electricity argument might have been mitigated, but I don't believe it is moot. If it was moot then it would be entirely irrelevant. It is still relevant because the power requirements might have been reduced, but that means nothing for the total power consumption. Indeed, it is possible for power requirements to decrease while simultaneously not abating or even increasing power consumption! Also, with the move to proof-of-stake, the winner-takes-all-ness of it is even worse. It is now even easier for early movers to continue reaping marginal rewards. It is a system designed to entrench and centralize power.
  - kinakomochidayo 3y ago
    It’s actually one of the biggest points of Proof of STAKE. People put ETH on the line, a substantial risk, to act accordingly to the rules set by nodes. Early adopters and the most passionate reap the rewards by buying earlier, and securing the network. Higher price also means higher security as it makes it harder and harder for bad actors to buy ETH and attack the network.
    - jurynulifcation 3y ago
      Right, but it also means that any legitimate users who get in later and want to genuinely participate are put on a permanent backfoot. Because ethereum is deflationary, and because PoS ensures marginal rewards goes to the biggest scammers- sorry I mean "the most passionate"- then the people who have more will get more. This is also a flaw shared by the actual real world economy used by big girls and boys. However, crypto has also innovated many many more flaws and insecurities. So I'd rather stick to the bad system we have now, vs the worse system designed by grifters who quite literally just do not understand fucking anything about sensible ways to organize people.
kalverra 3y ago
> My understanding is that they use NFTs on the Ethereum chain for authentication Your understanding is imperfect. You use your private key on Ethereum to authenticate, not an NFT. It does seem like certain NFTs gate access to different parts of the site. > NFTs are still wildly damaging to the ecosystem, with how much electricity they demand Not really anymore. As others have pointed out, the switch to PoS massively reduced Ethereum's energy demands, by ~99.5%. https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/04/26/ethereums-lifetime-energy-use-before-the-merge-equaled-switzerlands-for-a-year/ https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/04/26/ethereums-lifetime-... > Their sole purpose is to be traded as chits in a series of wealth extractions, until some unfortunate sucker is left holding the bag on a worthless blob of data that (rightfully) nobody wants. Ya, unfortunately the space is rife with grifters and hype in weird places, but that doesn't seem relevant to this specific project though. > So I believe it is a reasonable assumption that it is in this form so the creators can get in on the scam-o-sphere that is Ethereum/NFT. Or they're trying to make something legit within this space. The Internet's early use cases were largely a bunch of scams and over-hyped projects that failed miserably. That didn't exactly hold for long though.

ews 3y ago

After the Ethereum merge, the Energy Usage of any ETH token is negligible. Do you have any source for this "NFTs are damaging because how much electricity they demand" or is just plain old Hacker News "Crypto Bad" fud?

jurynulifcation 3y ago
Do you have any source for (a) how much electricity the blockchain requires after the merge and (b) whether there are any applications outside of gambling and scamming that can not be done otherwise?
- noman-land 3y ago
  https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    This is the definition of a self-interested source. How about you provide a resource that doesn't so immediately stand to profit from convincing others?
    - noman-land 3y ago
      Why don't you look at the software and do your own analysis.
      - jurynulifcation 3y ago
        [flagged]
        everfree 3y ago
        [flagged]
        _svoh 3y ago
        [flagged]
        everfree 3y ago
        [flagged]
        jurynulifcation 3y ago
        [flagged]
        everfree 3y ago
        [flagged]

monero-xmr 3y ago

Ethereum is proof of stake and doesn’t use tons of energy. I get you have an axe to grind but it would be better in a thread about Ethereum tech rather than an application. You are being really annoying and against the spirit of HN.

jurynulifcation 3y ago
[flagged]
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  I find various sports, video games, and reality TV totally useless and waste of time, energy, and a scam on people’s limited time on this earth. Doesn’t mean I want it outlawed.
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    I never said I want it outlawed. That would deprive me of the clowns to laugh at.
- kinakomochidayo 3y ago
  Electricity use was reduced by 99.98% with the transition to PoS
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    [dead]
- DANmode 3y ago
  > yet to find an application beyond gambling and scamming. Besides the only immutable planet-scale consensus of history, of course. Good grief.
  - rcxdude 3y ago
    That's not an application. It's a technological result. It may or may not be applied for productive work (I'd say on the whole the negative results have outweighed the positive so far, especially looking at the ecosystem as a whole)

noman-land 3y ago

The electricity argument has been made moot a while ago with the switch the proof of stake. Not all NFTs need to be bought or sold. They can just as easily be used as membership tokens that are given away. Also, according to the website, only some of the communities will be locked behind NFTs. Others appear to be free to join just with an Ethereum account used as auth. I haven't used the service so I'm not going to defend it but it makes sense for web3 communities to base their auth around the tech they're already using, and that is crypto wallets. Everyone in the community already has crypto wallets so the friction to join is very low.

jurynulifcation 3y ago
The electricity argument might have been mitigated, but I don't believe it is moot. If it was moot then it would be entirely irrelevant. It is still relevant because the power requirements might have been reduced, but that means nothing for the total power consumption. Indeed, it is possible for power requirements to decrease while simultaneously not abating or even increasing power consumption! Also, with the move to proof-of-stake, the winner-takes-all-ness of it is even worse. It is now even easier for early movers to continue reaping marginal rewards. It is a system designed to entrench and centralize power.
- kinakomochidayo 3y ago
  It’s actually one of the biggest points of Proof of STAKE. People put ETH on the line, a substantial risk, to act accordingly to the rules set by nodes. Early adopters and the most passionate reap the rewards by buying earlier, and securing the network. Higher price also means higher security as it makes it harder and harder for bad actors to buy ETH and attack the network.
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    Right, but it also means that any legitimate users who get in later and want to genuinely participate are put on a permanent backfoot. Because ethereum is deflationary, and because PoS ensures marginal rewards goes to the biggest scammers- sorry I mean "the most passionate"- then the people who have more will get more. This is also a flaw shared by the actual real world economy used by big girls and boys. However, crypto has also innovated many many more flaws and insecurities. So I'd rather stick to the bad system we have now, vs the worse system designed by grifters who quite literally just do not understand fucking anything about sensible ways to organize people.

kalverra 3y ago

> My understanding is that they use NFTs on the Ethereum chain for authentication Your understanding is imperfect. You use your private key on Ethereum to authenticate, not an NFT. It does seem like certain NFTs gate access to different parts of the site. > NFTs are still wildly damaging to the ecosystem, with how much electricity they demand Not really anymore. As others have pointed out, the switch to PoS massively reduced Ethereum's energy demands, by ~99.5%. https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/04/26/ethereums-lifetime-energy-use-before-the-merge-equaled-switzerlands-for-a-year/ https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/04/26/ethereums-lifetime-... > Their sole purpose is to be traded as chits in a series of wealth extractions, until some unfortunate sucker is left holding the bag on a worthless blob of data that (rightfully) nobody wants. Ya, unfortunately the space is rife with grifters and hype in weird places, but that doesn't seem relevant to this specific project though. > So I believe it is a reasonable assumption that it is in this form so the creators can get in on the scam-o-sphere that is Ethereum/NFT. Or they're trying to make something legit within this space. The Internet's early use cases were largely a bunch of scams and over-hyped projects that failed miserably. That didn't exactly hold for long though.