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Oh man you've never cared for trees/plants have you. Some of em (most often the ones you "want") are total crybabies over those "trace elements". You can't ha

Oh man you've never cared for trees/plants have you. Some of em (most often the ones you "want") are total crybabies over those "trace elements". You can't have DNA without phosphorus, for example, and many plants can't make nitrogen from air. Don't get me started on magnesium (needed for chlorophyll)

chewbacha 3y ago
I understand what you mean but the vast majority of their structure is carbon based and that comes from gaseous CO2. Can’t survive without the dirt but can’t get big without CO2
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
I want to suggest re-reading their comment. “mostly they make themselves from air” and “dirt has necessary trace elements” are both 100% factually correct. The word “necessary” covers what you are saying in your comment. There’s no need to suggest they haven’t raised plants when what they said is literally correct.
sbierwagen 3y ago
https://nutrients.ifas.ufl.edu/nutrient_pages/bsfpages/EssentialSub2.htm https://nutrients.ifas.ufl.edu/nutrient_pages/bsfpages/Essen... element %, dry wt. oxygen 45 carbon 44 hydrogen 6.3 nitrogen 1.3 silicon 1.2 potassium 0.9 calcium 0.25 phosphorus 0.16 magnesium 0.16 sulfur 0.15 chlorine 0.15 aluminum 0.11 sodium 0.03 iron 0.009 manganese 0.006 zinc 0.003 boron 0.001 copper 0.0005 molybdenum 0.0001 Just CHON is 96.6% of plant mass. Adding silicon, potassium and calcium brings it up to 98.95%
- kccqzy 3y ago
  What's your point? If I only allow you to eat C, H, O, N and their compounds, will you survive?
  - adastra22 3y ago
    His point is that most of the mass comes from the air.
- Miraste 3y ago
  The ocean is 96.5% H2O, but man, I had a hard time drinking it for some reason.
  - sdenton4 3y ago
    Fascinating - that's lower than I would have guessed. It seems ocean water is 2.5% salts, which, yeah, is pretty damned salty compared to anything I cook...
- metaphor 3y ago
  Corn tissue...with a very instructive caveat emptor: > Be aware that elemental concentrations in plant tissue can vary widely for a given crop depending on the stage of growth and environmental conditions and for different crops, yet plants can still appear normal and healthy. For some elements the range of sufficiency is wide and for others the range is narrow. A good deal of caution needs to be exercised in diagnosing mineral deficiencies based only on plant tissue analysis. Appreciate the cite though.
  - orangepurple 3y ago
    That could explain why the vegetables in Monsanto lands like America look and feel normal but have no flavor
    - metaphor 3y ago
      No idea what gives an arbitrary vegetable "flavor" relative to another in the same genus. Given how much of the industry is trial-and-error breeding to objectively target certain characteristics, it's unclear that practicing experts do either.
  - ehnto 3y ago
    That quote is talking about the way nutrients move around a plant I think, and how that introduces measurement issues depending on where and when you sample. Whereas I think this comment thread is just talking about overall composition. As in when the nutrients move from the stem to the head of a crop, if you sample the stem you would see a nutrient deficit, but actually the nutrients are still there, in the head. That's important for farming, not that important when discussing the makeup of plants overall. Useful sampling for crops is usually done post harvest, since that's the output and what we actually care about. Even after harvest, crops will change depending on the conditions endured during processing and shipment.
RajT88 3y ago
The boffins are working on self fertilizing crops now: https://e360.yale.edu/features/indigenous-maize-who-owns-the-rights-to-mexicos-wonder-plant https://e360.yale.edu/features/indigenous-maize-who-owns-the... It is wild that this is a thing.
- alliao 3y ago
  some say crop some say pest tomato tomato... really got that winter adapted hogs vibe that are causing havoc between Canada and the US
- adastra22 3y ago
  It’s been a thing for hundreds of years. That’s why agriculture traditionally rotated crops and planted beans every 3rd season or so. I’m not sure what if anything is deferent about this species of corn, except perhaps that it is itself a desirable crop with more market value. We stopped doing this and moved to artificial fertilizers in the 20th century because it vastly improved crop yields, and is cheaper.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    > I’m not sure what if anything is deferent about this species of corn This species of corn has weird roots halfway up which drip goop down on the ground. The goop contains nitrogen fixing bacteria from the soil which pull nitrogen out of the air to fertilize the soil. It is massively different from what you say. It would vastly reduce farm runoff while increasing yields. All facts contained within the article.
    - adastra22 3y ago
      I’m not sure you understand my post. Beans have the exact same nitrogen fixing bacteria in their roots too.
      - RajT88 3y ago
        Beans still require extra fertilizer. This corn species does not. Also it is corn, and not beans...? Beans is used in crop rotation in service of corn harvests. What if all of a sudden you don't have to rotate crops? This is a big deal. Don't pooh-pooh it.

chewbacha 3y ago

I understand what you mean but the vast majority of their structure is carbon based and that comes from gaseous CO2. Can’t survive without the dirt but can’t get big without CO2

TaylorAlexander 3y ago

I want to suggest re-reading their comment. “mostly they make themselves from air” and “dirt has necessary trace elements” are both 100% factually correct. The word “necessary” covers what you are saying in your comment. There’s no need to suggest they haven’t raised plants when what they said is literally correct.

sbierwagen 3y ago

https://nutrients.ifas.ufl.edu/nutrient_pages/bsfpages/EssentialSub2.htm https://nutrients.ifas.ufl.edu/nutrient_pages/bsfpages/Essen... element %, dry wt. oxygen 45 carbon 44 hydrogen 6.3 nitrogen 1.3 silicon 1.2 potassium 0.9 calcium 0.25 phosphorus 0.16 magnesium 0.16 sulfur 0.15 chlorine 0.15 aluminum 0.11 sodium 0.03 iron 0.009 manganese 0.006 zinc 0.003 boron 0.001 copper 0.0005 molybdenum 0.0001 Just CHON is 96.6% of plant mass. Adding silicon, potassium and calcium brings it up to 98.95%

kccqzy 3y ago
What's your point? If I only allow you to eat C, H, O, N and their compounds, will you survive?
- adastra22 3y ago
  His point is that most of the mass comes from the air.
Miraste 3y ago
The ocean is 96.5% H2O, but man, I had a hard time drinking it for some reason.
- sdenton4 3y ago
  Fascinating - that's lower than I would have guessed. It seems ocean water is 2.5% salts, which, yeah, is pretty damned salty compared to anything I cook...
metaphor 3y ago
Corn tissue...with a very instructive caveat emptor: > Be aware that elemental concentrations in plant tissue can vary widely for a given crop depending on the stage of growth and environmental conditions and for different crops, yet plants can still appear normal and healthy. For some elements the range of sufficiency is wide and for others the range is narrow. A good deal of caution needs to be exercised in diagnosing mineral deficiencies based only on plant tissue analysis. Appreciate the cite though.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  That could explain why the vegetables in Monsanto lands like America look and feel normal but have no flavor
  - metaphor 3y ago
    No idea what gives an arbitrary vegetable "flavor" relative to another in the same genus. Given how much of the industry is trial-and-error breeding to objectively target certain characteristics, it's unclear that practicing experts do either.
- ehnto 3y ago
  That quote is talking about the way nutrients move around a plant I think, and how that introduces measurement issues depending on where and when you sample. Whereas I think this comment thread is just talking about overall composition. As in when the nutrients move from the stem to the head of a crop, if you sample the stem you would see a nutrient deficit, but actually the nutrients are still there, in the head. That's important for farming, not that important when discussing the makeup of plants overall. Useful sampling for crops is usually done post harvest, since that's the output and what we actually care about. Even after harvest, crops will change depending on the conditions endured during processing and shipment.

RajT88 3y ago

The boffins are working on self fertilizing crops now: https://e360.yale.edu/features/indigenous-maize-who-owns-the-rights-to-mexicos-wonder-plant https://e360.yale.edu/features/indigenous-maize-who-owns-the... It is wild that this is a thing.

alliao 3y ago
some say crop some say pest tomato tomato... really got that winter adapted hogs vibe that are causing havoc between Canada and the US
adastra22 3y ago
It’s been a thing for hundreds of years. That’s why agriculture traditionally rotated crops and planted beans every 3rd season or so. I’m not sure what if anything is deferent about this species of corn, except perhaps that it is itself a desirable crop with more market value. We stopped doing this and moved to artificial fertilizers in the 20th century because it vastly improved crop yields, and is cheaper.
- RajT88 3y ago
  > I’m not sure what if anything is deferent about this species of corn This species of corn has weird roots halfway up which drip goop down on the ground. The goop contains nitrogen fixing bacteria from the soil which pull nitrogen out of the air to fertilize the soil. It is massively different from what you say. It would vastly reduce farm runoff while increasing yields. All facts contained within the article.
  - adastra22 3y ago
    I’m not sure you understand my post. Beans have the exact same nitrogen fixing bacteria in their roots too.
    - RajT88 3y ago
      Beans still require extra fertilizer. This corn species does not. Also it is corn, and not beans...? Beans is used in crop rotation in service of corn harvests. What if all of a sudden you don't have to rotate crops? This is a big deal. Don't pooh-pooh it.