4 ms·

"I kind of feel like it’s probably a good exercise for non-sales folks as well" That's really hard for me to buy. In a world where knowledge workers are specia

"I kind of feel like it’s probably a good exercise for non-sales folks as well" That's really hard for me to buy. In a world where knowledge workers are specialists, why force everyone to learn the financial side? By the same logic - Why not ask sales people to estimate how long a new software feature would take? Also, comparing sales to any other role in this context is disingenuous. Sales already know how much revenue they generate based on each sale. Projecting that out according to some percentage becomes trivial. I.e., "I sold 100 this year, and think I can do 105 next year". It's barely an "exercise". For nearly every other role, the effort is so abstract that it's virtually useless. How does a QA/PM/Agile Lead measure their revenue impact? The answer is they don't. Because the work they do is part of a larger organism that generates revenue. It's the managements job to know how much revenue the organism will generate.

ryandrake 3y ago
Yes, I agree--it's totally ridiculous to ask non-sales employees to show how they directly (or even indirectly) bring in revenue. As an extreme example, the janitor's job is not expected to be tied to revenue. Tons of worker-bee office jobs don't impact revenue, even indirectly. This is not an exercise that is very useful to individual employees. If your senior management doesn't understand how your team, as a large unit working together, impacts revenue, then that's kind of the fault of that management.
- phkahler 3y ago
  >> If your senior management doesn't understand how your team, as a large unit working together, impacts revenue, then that's kind of the fault of that management. Let's be more blunt. Then that management needs to go. Repeat at each level all the way up.
- kcplate 3y ago
  > If your senior management doesn't understand how your team, as a large unit working together, impacts revenue, then that's kind of the fault of that management. I am sure they do, but this isn’t about their understanding of your impact on revenue, it’s about your understanding of your impact on the company revenue. If you dont understand your value, you cannot argue your value from a position of strength. For what it’s worth, every position in a company from bottom to the top has an impact on revenue.
  - kramerger 3y ago
    This is the attitude you see when someone promotes a salesman to CEO. When you are a hammer, all problems will look like a nail to you. Even in a small company such as a startup, people have specialisations that only when put together will create some value. It is practically impossible for a lowly dev to estimate how much his work this week have contributed to the company bottom line.
    - kcplate 3y ago
      > …contributed to the company bottom line. I was talking revenue and if you really want to be able to argue your value a position of strength, you really should know the difference between revenue and a P&L.
      - mint2 3y ago
        Great now the janitor has to become an expert in finance.
        kcplate 3y ago
        Hey, if a white collar worker chose to blindly trust a company’s performance and their value and future role within it…so be it. And if a janitor chooses to pay attention to a company’s performance and understands his value to that organization to make sure his role is secure…I won’t deride that choice either. However I will gladly have the opinion that the janitor is a helluva lot smarter for gaining an understanding for their security as opposed to the white collar worker who is blindsided by a layoff.
kcplate 3y ago
> How does a QA/PM/Agile Lead measure their revenue impact? I’m a PM and I know exactly how much revenue my product generated for the company. I also can break it down to the amount of revenue features i have devised and added have brought in.
- tough 3y ago
  How do you prove the company wouldn't have brought the same or more revenue without you?
  - kcplate 3y ago
    You can’t, but no one can do that really unless you are the inventor of a product that didn’t exist and had no prior competing already products in the market. The point of all of this is the following: If I am a key component of a team company product that generates $100 a year in revenue my value is dramatically different to the organization than the person who is a minor player in a team product that brings $1B in revenue. My value is very high within my own product, but my product’s value is not very high to the organization. Understanding my impact on company revenue can tell me “am I safe in this role?” Or “I need to find another role because my little project is ripe for plucking”.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  A good PM can add a lot of value, but without a team, they're useless. You may know how much revenue your product generated for the company, but do you know how much of that revenue you generated yourself? In my experience, it gets nebulous very quickly.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    Sure, it is precisely: Some portion of the overall revenue the product brings in. The point of this is if you understand your value and your place within the company revenue mix, you can protect yourself better against being blindsided by a layoff. Scenario 1-My product brings in $0 and I cost the company $100k. Scenario 2-My product brings in $1B and I cost the company $100k. When the company belt tightening happens, which of those two scenarios has the greatest danger of layoff and disruption? If I know I am in scenario 1…I might start looking for a new gig because some portion* of $0 is $0, but scenario 2’s some portion* of $1B is certainly not $0.

ryandrake 3y ago

Yes, I agree--it's totally ridiculous to ask non-sales employees to show how they directly (or even indirectly) bring in revenue. As an extreme example, the janitor's job is not expected to be tied to revenue. Tons of worker-bee office jobs don't impact revenue, even indirectly. This is not an exercise that is very useful to individual employees. If your senior management doesn't understand how your team, as a large unit working together, impacts revenue, then that's kind of the fault of that management.

phkahler 3y ago
>> If your senior management doesn't understand how your team, as a large unit working together, impacts revenue, then that's kind of the fault of that management. Let's be more blunt. Then that management needs to go. Repeat at each level all the way up.
kcplate 3y ago
> If your senior management doesn't understand how your team, as a large unit working together, impacts revenue, then that's kind of the fault of that management. I am sure they do, but this isn’t about their understanding of your impact on revenue, it’s about your understanding of your impact on the company revenue. If you dont understand your value, you cannot argue your value from a position of strength. For what it’s worth, every position in a company from bottom to the top has an impact on revenue.
- kramerger 3y ago
  This is the attitude you see when someone promotes a salesman to CEO. When you are a hammer, all problems will look like a nail to you. Even in a small company such as a startup, people have specialisations that only when put together will create some value. It is practically impossible for a lowly dev to estimate how much his work this week have contributed to the company bottom line.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    > …contributed to the company bottom line. I was talking revenue and if you really want to be able to argue your value a position of strength, you really should know the difference between revenue and a P&L.
    - mint2 3y ago
      Great now the janitor has to become an expert in finance.
      - kcplate 3y ago
        Hey, if a white collar worker chose to blindly trust a company’s performance and their value and future role within it…so be it. And if a janitor chooses to pay attention to a company’s performance and understands his value to that organization to make sure his role is secure…I won’t deride that choice either. However I will gladly have the opinion that the janitor is a helluva lot smarter for gaining an understanding for their security as opposed to the white collar worker who is blindsided by a layoff.

kcplate 3y ago

> How does a QA/PM/Agile Lead measure their revenue impact? I’m a PM and I know exactly how much revenue my product generated for the company. I also can break it down to the amount of revenue features i have devised and added have brought in.

tough 3y ago
How do you prove the company wouldn't have brought the same or more revenue without you?
- kcplate 3y ago
  You can’t, but no one can do that really unless you are the inventor of a product that didn’t exist and had no prior competing already products in the market. The point of all of this is the following: If I am a key component of a team company product that generates $100 a year in revenue my value is dramatically different to the organization than the person who is a minor player in a team product that brings $1B in revenue. My value is very high within my own product, but my product’s value is not very high to the organization. Understanding my impact on company revenue can tell me “am I safe in this role?” Or “I need to find another role because my little project is ripe for plucking”.
hotpotamus 3y ago
A good PM can add a lot of value, but without a team, they're useless. You may know how much revenue your product generated for the company, but do you know how much of that revenue you generated yourself? In my experience, it gets nebulous very quickly.
- kcplate 3y ago
  Sure, it is precisely: Some portion of the overall revenue the product brings in. The point of this is if you understand your value and your place within the company revenue mix, you can protect yourself better against being blindsided by a layoff. Scenario 1-My product brings in $0 and I cost the company $100k. Scenario 2-My product brings in $1B and I cost the company $100k. When the company belt tightening happens, which of those two scenarios has the greatest danger of layoff and disruption? If I know I am in scenario 1…I might start looking for a new gig because some portion* of $0 is $0, but scenario 2’s some portion* of $1B is certainly not $0.