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As an app developer, I do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my use

As an app developer, I do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users. In particular, Apple should have no opinion on what kind of UGC my app contains if it's rated 18+. Apple should also stop protecting their own products by rejecting apps that cut into their market. But of course, Apple would do none of these things voluntarily, so that's where regulators need to step in. If you want your device to be controlled by Apple, keep installing apps exclusively from the app store when the sideloading inevitably comes. Just like you can already choose to do on macOS.

plorkyeran 3y ago
No, you can't choose to only install apps exclusively from the app store on macOS because the macOS app store is a barren wasteland. The MAS makes it very clear that the only reason app developers put up with the iOS app store restrictions is because they have no choice.
- NekkoDroid 3y ago
  Google Play Store begs to differ
  - grishka 3y ago
    Google Play's rules on things like UGC are much more relaxed to begin with.
- idle_zealot 3y ago
  The Mac is from a different time and has a very different user base than phones. By your argument the Play Store on Android makes it clear that the reason app developers put up with app stores is because of user patterns. On phones users are used to getting apps from the built-in store, so that's where they look for apps. Trying to sell an app via a website and APK download just doesn't work; users don't bite. There are alternative Android stores, most notably (outside of China) Amazon's and Samsungs. But both are wastelands, and devices with those stores typically also ship with the Play Store. I don't think "app store competition" is going to be much of a factor for iOS post-DMA, but I do expect hobbyists and open source developers to congregate around AltStore or something and create a repository of free utility apps without having to pay Apple's developer fees.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    > By your argument the Play Store on Android makes it clear that the reason app developers put up with app stores is because of user patterns that is correct. If android users were more willing to use alternate stores, Google would have less control. That said, I do enjoy being able to sideload apps with no hassle. Google may not allow 18+ apps or some emulators but I can find those no problem.
scarface_74 3y ago
So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”? Office apps (iWork)? There is Office 365, GSuite Storage providers (iCloud)? All third party storage providers show up next to iCloud when you use the file dialog box - DropBox, Box, Google Drive, One Drive Streaming apps (AppleTV)? There are dozens and when you search for a TV show or movie, the AppleTV app will tell you which subscribe services have it? Streaming music (Apple Music)? Spotify, Tidal and Pandora are all on the App Store? Etc… > do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users Guess what? I as an end user don’t want to have a “relationship” with you. When I pay for an app, I don’t want to give every Tom, Dick and Harry my credit card information. When I get ready to cancel my subscription, I don’t want to have to deal with you.
- grishka 3y ago
  > So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”? Netflix's "you can't sign up through the app" is a prime example of this that immediately comes to mind but there are many more. An argument can be made that hey.com is, in a way, competitor to the paid iCloud subscription. Yet Apple acts as if they own that relationship and that the app store was valuable in bringing the users to the app: https://www.hey.com/apple/iap/ https://www.hey.com/apple/iap/ Do you really think it's fair that all competing services have to be 30% more expensive than Apple's own ones if they play by Apple's rules? There used to be lots of iOS apps that allowed streaming pirated music. Everyone, including Apple, was seemingly fine with that and never asked where the music came from. But then, suddenly, when Apple Music was preparing to launch, all those apps started magically getting rejected for breaking the rule on "illegal file sharing". > When I pay for an app, Stop right here. No one was talking about paid apps. My initial point was about free apps. But if you so insist, in a FREE market, app developers would offer two options: pay through Apple with their 30% tax, or pay directly without it. I'll let you figure out which option most people would choose.
  - wruza 3y ago
    in a FREE market, app developers would offer two options: pay through Apple with their 30% tax, or pay directly without it In reality they will make scummest apps possible and ignore the AppStore completely. Only very big players and those whose primary target is AppStore anyway will offer two options.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wruza 3y ago
Yes, some ios devs have a problem using dark patterns and peeking into where their nose doesn’t belong, but it’s not a problem anyone wants to solve or consider as such. We choose it because it repels this “me wanna you should they need to” attitude. Please make apps that obey the rules or ignore the platform. Don’t tell anyone what they have to do for you without a contract.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users. That will be solved if/when they need to allow alternate App stores. But even then, The App store is Apple's own store, right? They make their own rules on what's allowed or no on their store. I have no issues with them controlling their store (as an android user, Google does the same despite having much less care). I'm just glad they are seemingly being forced to open up for stores that want different rules.

plorkyeran 3y ago

No, you can't choose to only install apps exclusively from the app store on macOS because the macOS app store is a barren wasteland. The MAS makes it very clear that the only reason app developers put up with the iOS app store restrictions is because they have no choice.

NekkoDroid 3y ago
Google Play Store begs to differ
- grishka 3y ago
  Google Play's rules on things like UGC are much more relaxed to begin with.
idle_zealot 3y ago
The Mac is from a different time and has a very different user base than phones. By your argument the Play Store on Android makes it clear that the reason app developers put up with app stores is because of user patterns. On phones users are used to getting apps from the built-in store, so that's where they look for apps. Trying to sell an app via a website and APK download just doesn't work; users don't bite. There are alternative Android stores, most notably (outside of China) Amazon's and Samsungs. But both are wastelands, and devices with those stores typically also ship with the Play Store. I don't think "app store competition" is going to be much of a factor for iOS post-DMA, but I do expect hobbyists and open source developers to congregate around AltStore or something and create a repository of free utility apps without having to pay Apple's developer fees.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  > By your argument the Play Store on Android makes it clear that the reason app developers put up with app stores is because of user patterns that is correct. If android users were more willing to use alternate stores, Google would have less control. That said, I do enjoy being able to sideload apps with no hassle. Google may not allow 18+ apps or some emulators but I can find those no problem.

scarface_74 3y ago

So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”? Office apps (iWork)? There is Office 365, GSuite Storage providers (iCloud)? All third party storage providers show up next to iCloud when you use the file dialog box - DropBox, Box, Google Drive, One Drive Streaming apps (AppleTV)? There are dozens and when you search for a TV show or movie, the AppleTV app will tell you which subscribe services have it? Streaming music (Apple Music)? Spotify, Tidal and Pandora are all on the App Store? Etc… > do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users Guess what? I as an end user don’t want to have a “relationship” with you. When I pay for an app, I don’t want to give every Tom, Dick and Harry my credit card information. When I get ready to cancel my subscription, I don’t want to have to deal with you.

grishka 3y ago
> So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”? Netflix's "you can't sign up through the app" is a prime example of this that immediately comes to mind but there are many more. An argument can be made that hey.com is, in a way, competitor to the paid iCloud subscription. Yet Apple acts as if they own that relationship and that the app store was valuable in bringing the users to the app: https://www.hey.com/apple/iap/ https://www.hey.com/apple/iap/ Do you really think it's fair that all competing services have to be 30% more expensive than Apple's own ones if they play by Apple's rules? There used to be lots of iOS apps that allowed streaming pirated music. Everyone, including Apple, was seemingly fine with that and never asked where the music came from. But then, suddenly, when Apple Music was preparing to launch, all those apps started magically getting rejected for breaking the rule on "illegal file sharing". > When I pay for an app, Stop right here. No one was talking about paid apps. My initial point was about free apps. But if you so insist, in a FREE market, app developers would offer two options: pay through Apple with their 30% tax, or pay directly without it. I'll let you figure out which option most people would choose.
- wruza 3y ago
  in a FREE market, app developers would offer two options: pay through Apple with their 30% tax, or pay directly without it In reality they will make scummest apps possible and ignore the AppStore completely. Only very big players and those whose primary target is AppStore anyway will offer two options.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

wruza 3y ago

Yes, some ios devs have a problem using dark patterns and peeking into where their nose doesn’t belong, but it’s not a problem anyone wants to solve or consider as such. We choose it because it repels this “me wanna you should they need to” attitude. Please make apps that obey the rules or ignore the platform. Don’t tell anyone what they have to do for you without a contract.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

>I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users. That will be solved if/when they need to allow alternate App stores. But even then, The App store is Apple's own store, right? They make their own rules on what's allowed or no on their store. I have no issues with them controlling their store (as an android user, Google does the same despite having much less care). I'm just glad they are seemingly being forced to open up for stores that want different rules.