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>Two years into the pandemic, something shifted. That’s when I was getting inundated with people who were in crisis and on the brink of divorce. Yet another un

>Two years into the pandemic, something shifted. That’s when I was getting inundated with people who were in crisis and on the brink of divorce. Yet another unintended consequence of lockdowns

fullshark 3y ago
I wonder if we'll ever get an honest postmortem on this policy intervention, the largest and most intrusive domestic policy the gov't initiated in my lifetime, done without a law even being passed or any actual debate.
- nilespotter 3y ago
  I believe we're expected to be grateful that it's over, and in our gratitude, forget.
- jhp123 3y ago
  which policy intervention are you talking about?
  - fullshark 3y ago
    lockdowns and forced business closures. Edit: In case this is an invitation for a debate about what exactly is "policy" and whether it was a true intervention or a true forced lockdown... I have no interest in discussing that and I regret even bringing it up. Have a nice weekend.
    - getmeinrn 3y ago
      Don't regret it. People will play word games with you and move the goalposts, but we all lived through it. Don't get demoralized by people who have boundless energy for gaslighting.
      - theossuary 3y ago
        That's funny because the only gaslighting I see is from people pretending that the pandemic didn't exist. Since the pandemic was declared over, I've started to see crazy people come out of the woodwork trying to gaslight me into thinking the pandemic wasn't as bad as I remember it.
        getmeinrn 3y ago
        Why is that funny?
        darkerside 3y ago
        The funny thing is, for a lot of people, it wasn't. They figured out a way to keep living their lives as all as they could, while minimizing concerns about whether this mysterious illness might be incredibly dangerous. And you never crossed paths with them because you were living in different worlds.
    - jhp123 3y ago
      what lockdowns? where? Obviously some places (e.g. China) had lockdowns and others (e.g. Wyoming) did not. I'm asking which government's policy, and which specific one, not trying to gaslight you into thinking that there were no policy responses anywhere.
      - getmeinrn 3y ago
        A "stay at home order" is considered a lockdown, per wikipedia. If you disagree, take it up with the editors there. You will find them far more receptive than me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_and_local_government_responses_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Initial_pandemic_responses,_including_full_lockdowns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_and_local_governmen...
        hattmall 3y ago
        Right but not everywhere did that. I was in Georgia and schools did close for 2 months, but other than that there was no type of lockdown or anything. I think for 2 weeks you couldn't get a hair cut and some restaurants were to go only. Then everything was incredibly busy and everyone had extra money. I went on vacation to Florida 3 or 4 times in the summer of 2020 and it was far busier than I had ever seen it.
        defrost 3y ago
        I live in a "locked down" state - two million people, an area 3x larger than Texas. We locked down by checkpointing the two land roads in|out of the state and requiring anybody coming in by road | air | ship to quarentine under observation before freely moving about the state. Truckers dropped or picked up trailer loads w/out contact. Otherwise people largely moved about freely within the state aside from a few (very few) localised incidents of COVID transfer outside of buffer zones, in each case small areas were asked to restrict movement and mask up until no more cases appeared. That was kept up until vaccines became available and vaccination exceeded 90%. As a state with a strong sense of self goverance by people at large this wasn't a draconion top down unwanted imposition, it was very much an overwhelmingly popular broadly supported measure with very proportionally few dissenters.
- spaceman_2020 3y ago
  There has been admitted theft of literally hundreds of billions from the pandemic relief measures, but there has been no followup, no pressure from the public, no punishments. The measures have hollowed out the middle class, bolstered the land-owning class, and destituted the lower class. Anyone who owned any assets - stocks, land, crypto - has seen their net worth increase 50-200%. Meanwhile the waging class has been priced out of ever owning houses or land - first through sheer asset appreciation, then through unaffordable interest rates. The worst part of it all is that no one even cares to seek accountability. The working class has been led to believe that fighting about gender and race and identity are way more important than the economic war being systematically waged against them. Detestable.
  - sethrin 3y ago
    Social justice is also economic justice. I'm not sure why you're talking about these as separate concepts.
    - spaceman_2020 3y ago
      Considering how happy corporate America is to adopt every social justice movement, while actively lobbying against every attempt to unionize or fight for better wages, you should be a little skeptical. Uber will happily display pride flags and happily sue the NYC government for its minimum wage laws. That should tell you something. When it comes to corporate America, believe what they do in the courtroom, not what they do on their social media.
      - sethrin 3y ago
        Congratulations on successfully distinguishing rainbow capitalism from social justice. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  I've heard it said that the people who were the most fanatical about the individual and societal dangers of COVID-19 are the ones who are most likely nowadays to chuckle and say "Boy, things sure got a little ridiculous back then, eh?"
- _hcuq 3y ago
  There are decent proxies, eg divorce rate, which should provide good clues about the effects of lock downs. Another one would be domestic violence arrests and convictions. You can probably think of more. I would like to see someone try to do an honest look at this.
  - watwut 3y ago
    People did had look on it and they are easy to find. Tl;dr, just like with any other crisis, divorces went down, because people don't divorce in the middle of these. Domestic violence went up, because abusers got more options and victims were locked down with them. After covid crises ended, uptick of 'delayed' divorces.
- roenxi 3y ago
  I dunno, what counts as honest? Hot off the press: https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/ https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdi... If there is reasonable doubt about the effectiveness of lockdowns then they were a disaster. Mass suspension of basic human rights isn't something that should be done on the basis that it seems like a good idea in the moment.

>Two years into the pandemic, something shifted. That’s when I was getting inundated with people who were in crisis and on the brink of divorce. Yet another unintended consequence of lockdowns

fullshark 3y ago

I wonder if we'll ever get an honest postmortem on this policy intervention, the largest and most intrusive domestic policy the gov't initiated in my lifetime, done without a law even being passed or any actual debate.

nilespotter 3y ago
I believe we're expected to be grateful that it's over, and in our gratitude, forget.
jhp123 3y ago
which policy intervention are you talking about?
- fullshark 3y ago
  lockdowns and forced business closures. Edit: In case this is an invitation for a debate about what exactly is "policy" and whether it was a true intervention or a true forced lockdown... I have no interest in discussing that and I regret even bringing it up. Have a nice weekend.
  - getmeinrn 3y ago
    Don't regret it. People will play word games with you and move the goalposts, but we all lived through it. Don't get demoralized by people who have boundless energy for gaslighting.
    - theossuary 3y ago
      That's funny because the only gaslighting I see is from people pretending that the pandemic didn't exist. Since the pandemic was declared over, I've started to see crazy people come out of the woodwork trying to gaslight me into thinking the pandemic wasn't as bad as I remember it.
      - getmeinrn 3y ago
        Why is that funny?
      - darkerside 3y ago
        The funny thing is, for a lot of people, it wasn't. They figured out a way to keep living their lives as all as they could, while minimizing concerns about whether this mysterious illness might be incredibly dangerous. And you never crossed paths with them because you were living in different worlds.
  - jhp123 3y ago
    what lockdowns? where? Obviously some places (e.g. China) had lockdowns and others (e.g. Wyoming) did not. I'm asking which government's policy, and which specific one, not trying to gaslight you into thinking that there were no policy responses anywhere.
    - getmeinrn 3y ago
      A "stay at home order" is considered a lockdown, per wikipedia. If you disagree, take it up with the editors there. You will find them far more receptive than me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_and_local_government_responses_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Initial_pandemic_responses,_including_full_lockdowns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_and_local_governmen...
      - hattmall 3y ago
        Right but not everywhere did that. I was in Georgia and schools did close for 2 months, but other than that there was no type of lockdown or anything. I think for 2 weeks you couldn't get a hair cut and some restaurants were to go only. Then everything was incredibly busy and everyone had extra money. I went on vacation to Florida 3 or 4 times in the summer of 2020 and it was far busier than I had ever seen it.
        defrost 3y ago
        I live in a "locked down" state - two million people, an area 3x larger than Texas. We locked down by checkpointing the two land roads in|out of the state and requiring anybody coming in by road | air | ship to quarentine under observation before freely moving about the state. Truckers dropped or picked up trailer loads w/out contact. Otherwise people largely moved about freely within the state aside from a few (very few) localised incidents of COVID transfer outside of buffer zones, in each case small areas were asked to restrict movement and mask up until no more cases appeared. That was kept up until vaccines became available and vaccination exceeded 90%. As a state with a strong sense of self goverance by people at large this wasn't a draconion top down unwanted imposition, it was very much an overwhelmingly popular broadly supported measure with very proportionally few dissenters.
spaceman_2020 3y ago
There has been admitted theft of literally hundreds of billions from the pandemic relief measures, but there has been no followup, no pressure from the public, no punishments. The measures have hollowed out the middle class, bolstered the land-owning class, and destituted the lower class. Anyone who owned any assets - stocks, land, crypto - has seen their net worth increase 50-200%. Meanwhile the waging class has been priced out of ever owning houses or land - first through sheer asset appreciation, then through unaffordable interest rates. The worst part of it all is that no one even cares to seek accountability. The working class has been led to believe that fighting about gender and race and identity are way more important than the economic war being systematically waged against them. Detestable.
- sethrin 3y ago
  Social justice is also economic justice. I'm not sure why you're talking about these as separate concepts.
  - spaceman_2020 3y ago
    Considering how happy corporate America is to adopt every social justice movement, while actively lobbying against every attempt to unionize or fight for better wages, you should be a little skeptical. Uber will happily display pride flags and happily sue the NYC government for its minimum wage laws. That should tell you something. When it comes to corporate America, believe what they do in the courtroom, not what they do on their social media.
    - sethrin 3y ago
      Congratulations on successfully distinguishing rainbow capitalism from social justice. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
TMWNN 3y ago
I've heard it said that the people who were the most fanatical about the individual and societal dangers of COVID-19 are the ones who are most likely nowadays to chuckle and say "Boy, things sure got a little ridiculous back then, eh?"
_hcuq 3y ago
There are decent proxies, eg divorce rate, which should provide good clues about the effects of lock downs. Another one would be domestic violence arrests and convictions. You can probably think of more. I would like to see someone try to do an honest look at this.
- watwut 3y ago
  People did had look on it and they are easy to find. Tl;dr, just like with any other crisis, divorces went down, because people don't divorce in the middle of these. Domestic violence went up, because abusers got more options and victims were locked down with them. After covid crises ended, uptick of 'delayed' divorces.
roenxi 3y ago
I dunno, what counts as honest? Hot off the press: https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/ https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdi... If there is reasonable doubt about the effectiveness of lockdowns then they were a disaster. Mass suspension of basic human rights isn't something that should be done on the basis that it seems like a good idea in the moment.