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> Kubernetes means you don't have to learn each clouds way of doing a deployment. So instead of learning how to deploy on GCP, AWS, and Azure, which is only 3x

> Kubernetes means you don't have to learn each clouds way of doing a deployment. So instead of learning how to deploy on GCP, AWS, and Azure, which is only 3x more complicated than deploying to a single cloud, you should learn K8s, which is 10-15x more complicated, in addition to still having to learn about all the various ingress controllers and weird quirks that are completely different on each cloud provider. Doesn't really track for me.

echelon 3y ago
> which is 10-15x more complicated You can learn k8s in a day. It's really simple. > various ingress controllers and weird quirks that are completely different on each cloud provider Which are thoroughly documented and not that hard to implement or understand. You'd be reading about each cloud's nonstandard ingress even without k8s. The beauty of k8s is you can run your software locally and have a much easier time lifting and shifting to another cloud. Fitting to the shape of a cloud provider is a great way to never leave. Another benefit of k8s is that you treat your services as cattle you can easily spawn and kill. Adoption of k8s naturally leads to anti-fragility, anti-brittle best practices.
- hosh 3y ago
  I think being able to abstract the cloud providers is secondary to k8s’s ability to self-heal and its modularity. But I think most developers don’t care, and instead, should interact with a platform built with Kubernetes as a foundation.
- profunctor 3y ago
  Maybe this is because I’m not that smart but I could not learn real kubernetes in a day. I had to build a system for loading models and returning predictions over a HTTPS api. It had to connect to storage to load the model, needed secrets etc. It took more than a day. And I think it would take most people more than a day to go from zero to able to create a useful, real world deployment in a day. I’m sure you can rush through the documentation in a day but I wouldn’t call that learning.
- bg24 3y ago
  Having spent 4 years working with kubernetes (though as a PM, but pretty hands-on), getting started is easy - like in less a week. The problem happens when you run into issues. That can suck up lot of time. Also if you are new to containers, it might not be a good step to venture into k8s.
hosh 3y ago
K8S is not that complicated. Once you know the big ideas behind it, and how to reason with it, it becomes a very versatile platform substrate. Probably the biggest one is understanding you don’t ever do anything directly with Kubernetes.
- el_benhameen 3y ago
  Do you have any favorite learning resources?
  - doctoboggan 3y ago
    I've learned K8S over the past few months and what was absolutely instrumental to my understanding was: 1. use Helm, and 2. daily chat sessions with gpt-4. I use gpt-4 through the API where you can set your own system prompt. I developed one that basically instructed it to give me kubectl commands to solve my problems and then wait for me to give it the result before continuing. Through this I learned the practical techniques and which kubectl commands you use on a daily basis, which is so much more helpful than reading the documentation which just gives all commands equal weight. EDIT: Oh, and definitely watch a few "TechWorld with Nana" videos on YouTube. She does a great job of explaining the architecture, terminology, and philosophy of k8s which I think it very helpful to know.
  - hosh 3y ago
    I learned k8s the hard way so I am not sure I can point those out. That mindset of not doing anything directly comes from understanding that you are not setting up pods up, but rather, you are setting automated processes up. These processes knows what the desired state is, and if there is something that changes things, it takes actions to get back to that desired state. So you don’t create pods. You create deployments that maintain a set of pods. You don’t assign pods to nodes. You define pod affinities, and use node selectors on nodegroups. You use pod priority. You make graceful startups and shutdowns work correctly. And so forth.
- saurik 3y ago
  Then what are you using, if not kubernetes, when you are using kubernetes?
beebmam 3y ago
No shot that kubernetes is 10-15x more complicated than cloud offerings.
ChatGTP 3y ago
There is no way k8s is that complicated? Not sure you’ve used it in anger but it is awesome.

echelon 3y ago

> which is 10-15x more complicated You can learn k8s in a day. It's really simple. > various ingress controllers and weird quirks that are completely different on each cloud provider Which are thoroughly documented and not that hard to implement or understand. You'd be reading about each cloud's nonstandard ingress even without k8s. The beauty of k8s is you can run your software locally and have a much easier time lifting and shifting to another cloud. Fitting to the shape of a cloud provider is a great way to never leave. Another benefit of k8s is that you treat your services as cattle you can easily spawn and kill. Adoption of k8s naturally leads to anti-fragility, anti-brittle best practices.

hosh 3y ago
I think being able to abstract the cloud providers is secondary to k8s’s ability to self-heal and its modularity. But I think most developers don’t care, and instead, should interact with a platform built with Kubernetes as a foundation.
profunctor 3y ago
Maybe this is because I’m not that smart but I could not learn real kubernetes in a day. I had to build a system for loading models and returning predictions over a HTTPS api. It had to connect to storage to load the model, needed secrets etc. It took more than a day. And I think it would take most people more than a day to go from zero to able to create a useful, real world deployment in a day. I’m sure you can rush through the documentation in a day but I wouldn’t call that learning.
bg24 3y ago
Having spent 4 years working with kubernetes (though as a PM, but pretty hands-on), getting started is easy - like in less a week. The problem happens when you run into issues. That can suck up lot of time. Also if you are new to containers, it might not be a good step to venture into k8s.

hosh 3y ago

K8S is not that complicated. Once you know the big ideas behind it, and how to reason with it, it becomes a very versatile platform substrate. Probably the biggest one is understanding you don’t ever do anything directly with Kubernetes.

el_benhameen 3y ago
Do you have any favorite learning resources?
- doctoboggan 3y ago
  I've learned K8S over the past few months and what was absolutely instrumental to my understanding was: 1. use Helm, and 2. daily chat sessions with gpt-4. I use gpt-4 through the API where you can set your own system prompt. I developed one that basically instructed it to give me kubectl commands to solve my problems and then wait for me to give it the result before continuing. Through this I learned the practical techniques and which kubectl commands you use on a daily basis, which is so much more helpful than reading the documentation which just gives all commands equal weight. EDIT: Oh, and definitely watch a few "TechWorld with Nana" videos on YouTube. She does a great job of explaining the architecture, terminology, and philosophy of k8s which I think it very helpful to know.
- hosh 3y ago
  I learned k8s the hard way so I am not sure I can point those out. That mindset of not doing anything directly comes from understanding that you are not setting up pods up, but rather, you are setting automated processes up. These processes knows what the desired state is, and if there is something that changes things, it takes actions to get back to that desired state. So you don’t create pods. You create deployments that maintain a set of pods. You don’t assign pods to nodes. You define pod affinities, and use node selectors on nodegroups. You use pod priority. You make graceful startups and shutdowns work correctly. And so forth.
saurik 3y ago
Then what are you using, if not kubernetes, when you are using kubernetes?

beebmam 3y ago

No shot that kubernetes is 10-15x more complicated than cloud offerings.

ChatGTP 3y ago

There is no way k8s is that complicated? Not sure you’ve used it in anger but it is awesome.