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> When an app asks for permissions, the OS should not only let you answer yes or no. Every category should have a "yes, but feed the app fake data" option. A s

> When an app asks for permissions, the OS should not only let you answer yes or no. Every category should have a "yes, but feed the app fake data" option. A significant amount of people don’t even know how to forward an email. Imagine the havoc that would ensue when people try to use Google Maps for navigation, and they choose to feed it fake data because they don’t understand what it means. Google Maps: “Turn right” Guy driving alongside the ocean: “ok” Car: *splash*

easterncalculus 3y ago
This is an entirely UX problem then. You could bury the data faking deep in the settings, clearly explain what it does in plain language before enabling it as well as plainly telling the user onscreen that the application is being fed information for privacy reasons that they themselves enabled (and can easily disable). There is always someone who will end up enabling this erroneously, but it would provide a lot of value to a lot of users that didn't.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  The people who are savvy enough to jump through those hoops are savvy enough to rock a phone that is modded to feed fake data already.
  - easterncalculus 3y ago
    There's truth to that, but jailbreaks to install those on most smartphones depend on exploits for those systems to install your own software. It would be nice if some of this stuff came stock.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    I'm savvy, but I'm also lazy.
- afavour 3y ago
  Right, locking the functionality off to only people with a deep understanding of it would work but it’s sidestepping the problem. People without understanding would still benefit from it so it’s a shame to lock them out of it and it’s harder to justify a feature only 0.5% of your user base will use.
  - oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
    Maybe just seed it with very sensible default settings like "send real data when asking for directions"?
    - internetter 3y ago
      It's impossible for the OS to know the intent of the app requesting location with certainty. That being said, android at least has options for "Approximate" and "Precise" locations and locations in the background or only when the app is open.
      - kennyloginz 3y ago
        Personally, I think it’s great that both options exist. Some problems really do require location info, as well as other strict controls ( like no screen-shots).
bdcravens 3y ago
Then make the setting a power-user opt-in, so that the uninitiated wouldn't even see the option.
- fmx 3y ago
  No, the whole point of the original post is that a lot of users see (and use) the option, so that the app's database of personal data is full of rubbish. I don't think the GP's scenario is realistic. A user would see that their location on the map is wrong before they even get a chance to begin navigation. Besides, Google Maps already sometimes tells people to drive through roadblocks and locked gates and such (which it isn't aware of), so it already requires the driver to think for themselves to some extent.
chongli 3y ago
Do a lot of people use Google Maps on iOS? I ask because the “feed fake data” option is something I could imagine Apple doing but never in a million years would I believe Google would do it. Apple Maps wouldn’t have this issue. It’s capable of running offline (without a data connection) because it can download maps to the device.
- OJFord 3y ago
  So is Google Maps (on Android at least, or at least it was 10 years ago when I last did that).
- 0ld 3y ago
  a lot of people do, for example me. apple maps sucks badly where i live (eu). say, it has no idea my house (built 6 years ago) exists, it builds routes via non-existing roads, is not aware of road works, detours or most of the businesses around apple maps is completely useless here, even though i don’t like using a google app, there’s no alternative
  - hattmall 3y ago
    Apple maps sucks badly here in the US as well. Just last month it took me down a road that had been closed and diverted many years ago, we almost missed a wedding.
  - chongli 3y ago
    That makes sense, though that's highly specific to where you live. Where I live it works perfectly so I have no reason to use Google Maps at all.
- jsnell 3y ago
  > Apple Maps wouldn’t have this issue. It’s capable of running offline (without a data connection) because it can download maps to the device. Why would that matter? Even if the map data is cached locally, a navigation app obviously needs a GPS location from the phone, which requires it to be granted permissions. And the fake data would be equally disastrous to any navigation app. Or are you suggesting that if Apple were to add a feature for generating fake data, it'd only apply to 3p apps and not their own? I'll admit that it would be totally on-brand behavior.
GravitasFailure 3y ago
>Google Maps: “Turn right” >Guy driving alongside the ocean: “ok” >Car: *splash* This seems like a learning opportunity. Or a Darwinian opportunity. Either way, self-solving.
- davidjfelix 3y ago
  That feeling when hacker news user endorses eugenics as long as its just stupid people.
  - evandale 3y ago
    What makes you think GP is talking about eugenics? If anything, they're talking about natural selection which is not eugenics. Eugenics is when you select fitness at birth. GP would be endorsing genocide, or maybe epigenetics if anything, based on the small out of context comment. I highly doubt either was the intention and wonder how you got to the eugenics conclusion.
    - rhn_mk1 3y ago
      It's not natural selection if you help it.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - evandale 3y ago
        >This seems like a learning opportunity. Or a Darwinian opportunity. Either way, self-solving. I took either as meaning a learning opportunity for one or all of the 1) GPS app makers, 2) the person who blindly followed the directions of a robot, or 3) the rest of us who learn about the event. What interpretation did you have that suggests they were referring to eugenics?
        davidjfelix 3y ago
severino 3y ago
Well, you don't really need to feed fake GPS data to have Google Maps make you drive into the ocean or things like that.
zzo38computer 3y ago
In that case, people who are driving the car are failing to see properly which way they are going. That problem is a different problem. > the OS should not only let you answer yes or no. Every category should have a "yes, but feed the app fake data" option Well, I think perhaps "Yes", "No", and "Custom". If you select "Custom" then perhaps there could be a warning message displayed in the "Custom" menu if that would help, but it should not block you from customizing it as you want to do.

easterncalculus 3y ago

This is an entirely UX problem then. You could bury the data faking deep in the settings, clearly explain what it does in plain language before enabling it as well as plainly telling the user onscreen that the application is being fed information for privacy reasons that they themselves enabled (and can easily disable). There is always someone who will end up enabling this erroneously, but it would provide a lot of value to a lot of users that didn't.

shadowgovt 3y ago
The people who are savvy enough to jump through those hoops are savvy enough to rock a phone that is modded to feed fake data already.
- easterncalculus 3y ago
  There's truth to that, but jailbreaks to install those on most smartphones depend on exploits for those systems to install your own software. It would be nice if some of this stuff came stock.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  I'm savvy, but I'm also lazy.
afavour 3y ago
Right, locking the functionality off to only people with a deep understanding of it would work but it’s sidestepping the problem. People without understanding would still benefit from it so it’s a shame to lock them out of it and it’s harder to justify a feature only 0.5% of your user base will use.
- oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
  Maybe just seed it with very sensible default settings like "send real data when asking for directions"?
  - internetter 3y ago
    It's impossible for the OS to know the intent of the app requesting location with certainty. That being said, android at least has options for "Approximate" and "Precise" locations and locations in the background or only when the app is open.
    - kennyloginz 3y ago
      Personally, I think it’s great that both options exist. Some problems really do require location info, as well as other strict controls ( like no screen-shots).

bdcravens 3y ago

Then make the setting a power-user opt-in, so that the uninitiated wouldn't even see the option.

fmx 3y ago
No, the whole point of the original post is that a lot of users see (and use) the option, so that the app's database of personal data is full of rubbish. I don't think the GP's scenario is realistic. A user would see that their location on the map is wrong before they even get a chance to begin navigation. Besides, Google Maps already sometimes tells people to drive through roadblocks and locked gates and such (which it isn't aware of), so it already requires the driver to think for themselves to some extent.

chongli 3y ago

Do a lot of people use Google Maps on iOS? I ask because the “feed fake data” option is something I could imagine Apple doing but never in a million years would I believe Google would do it. Apple Maps wouldn’t have this issue. It’s capable of running offline (without a data connection) because it can download maps to the device.

OJFord 3y ago
So is Google Maps (on Android at least, or at least it was 10 years ago when I last did that).
0ld 3y ago
a lot of people do, for example me. apple maps sucks badly where i live (eu). say, it has no idea my house (built 6 years ago) exists, it builds routes via non-existing roads, is not aware of road works, detours or most of the businesses around apple maps is completely useless here, even though i don’t like using a google app, there’s no alternative
- hattmall 3y ago
  Apple maps sucks badly here in the US as well. Just last month it took me down a road that had been closed and diverted many years ago, we almost missed a wedding.
- chongli 3y ago
  That makes sense, though that's highly specific to where you live. Where I live it works perfectly so I have no reason to use Google Maps at all.
jsnell 3y ago
> Apple Maps wouldn’t have this issue. It’s capable of running offline (without a data connection) because it can download maps to the device. Why would that matter? Even if the map data is cached locally, a navigation app obviously needs a GPS location from the phone, which requires it to be granted permissions. And the fake data would be equally disastrous to any navigation app. Or are you suggesting that if Apple were to add a feature for generating fake data, it'd only apply to 3p apps and not their own? I'll admit that it would be totally on-brand behavior.

GravitasFailure 3y ago

>Google Maps: “Turn right” >Guy driving alongside the ocean: “ok” >Car: *splash* This seems like a learning opportunity. Or a Darwinian opportunity. Either way, self-solving.

davidjfelix 3y ago
That feeling when hacker news user endorses eugenics as long as its just stupid people.
- evandale 3y ago
  What makes you think GP is talking about eugenics? If anything, they're talking about natural selection which is not eugenics. Eugenics is when you select fitness at birth. GP would be endorsing genocide, or maybe epigenetics if anything, based on the small out of context comment. I highly doubt either was the intention and wonder how you got to the eugenics conclusion.
  - rhn_mk1 3y ago
    It's not natural selection if you help it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - evandale 3y ago
      >This seems like a learning opportunity. Or a Darwinian opportunity. Either way, self-solving. I took either as meaning a learning opportunity for one or all of the 1) GPS app makers, 2) the person who blindly followed the directions of a robot, or 3) the rest of us who learn about the event. What interpretation did you have that suggests they were referring to eugenics?
      - davidjfelix 3y ago

severino 3y ago

Well, you don't really need to feed fake GPS data to have Google Maps make you drive into the ocean or things like that.

zzo38computer 3y ago

In that case, people who are driving the car are failing to see properly which way they are going. That problem is a different problem. > the OS should not only let you answer yes or no. Every category should have a "yes, but feed the app fake data" option Well, I think perhaps "Yes", "No", and "Custom". If you select "Custom" then perhaps there could be a warning message displayed in the "Custom" menu if that would help, but it should not block you from customizing it as you want to do.