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I am all for evidence-based decisions, but you are asking for evidence that sky is indeed blue. Like seriously, you want me to prove that math is actually used

I am all for evidence-based decisions, but you are asking for evidence that sky is indeed blue. Like seriously, you want me to prove that math is actually used somewhere? How about it being used in the evidence you are asking for? And when was the last time you used long division? I am sure there are nuances that average student or parent cannot see, but the thing with schools is that they are so rotten that a long list of serious flaws is visible to the public along with corresponding solutions. Your demands for evidence for the obvious are just a form of red tape intended to protect the status quo. This sort of behavior is the definition of bureaucracy: no action can be taken until approved by the bureaucrat (via curriculum, law, funding, or management decision). In the end, everyone in education just wants to be protected from the stress of change and the challenges of technology.

ModernMech 3y ago
All I am asking for is for you to do even one single solitary ounce of effort in validating your assertions. Just like, the minimal, basest, most barebones effort beyond consulting your feelings. The barest of effort is not red tape. If anything, your argument style is doing great to reinforce the status quo, because it will convince exactly 0 people to change their ways. I provided to you just the kind of evidence that would be necessary to convince people, and I have used to convince many people of exactly what you're trying to push here. Published work by experts in the field who have thought deeply about the subject, published works on the subject, and even designed and tested new curricula in a scientific manner. That is what you need to show people, not just glib statements about how what you're saying is "obvious" and how the people who are doing differently are "insane". But I didn't go about it calling people "insane" in their actions, because that's the fastest way to get an immediate stonewall. These people are not insane, they are in fact as sane as you think you are, and a huge chunk of them (could even be a majority, certainly every teacher in my department) actually agree with you. But your whole approach of disparaging the very people trying to make a difference, trying to implement the change you want to see. You are calling this system rotten and you literally have no understanding of it, as you've shown here in your posts to me. I'm open to being convinced that you know what you're talking about, but you keep telling me that you don't want to convince me, so I'll take you at your word that you know nothing about this topic you feel so passionately about. Definitely worthy of a bookmark for the best example of "Big Important Feelings" I've found in the wild so far. Cheers.
- guy98238710 3y ago
  > Published work by experts in the field who have thought deeply about the subject, published works on the subject, and even designed and tested new curricula in a scientific manner. This is called "paralysis by analysis", a special case of "penny wise, pound stupid". There's a lot of low-hanging fruit in education that does not need much thinking. You are free to optimize the solutions as much as you want, but don't use that as an excuse to delay change. Also, some changes (computers in particular) only bring benefits when implemented at scale. Small incremental tests will always show negative results, because they will be dominated by costs of the change. > All I am asking for is for you to do even one single solitary ounce of effort in validating your assertions. Homeschooling parents validate tons of possible changes all the time. I did it too. One thing you learn when homeschooling is that major changes can be implemented quickly, easily, and cheaply by single person. You can iterate so quickly you end up being limited by the compulsory curriculum rather than by opportunities for improvement. You then look at the glacially slow pace of change (or even regression) in "professional" education and cannot help thinking it's insane. Something must be very wrong with the system. > But your whole approach of disparaging the very people trying to make a difference Are they really trying to make a difference? My impression is that teachers just want to do the minimum work they have to do and then go home. I have never seen a teacher care the way parents care. There are exceptions, rare innovators, but exceptional teachers, if they avoid traps of educational fads and try to implement real change, quickly run into resistance. They are locked in the inertia of the large organization. Their hands are tied, they get frustrated and they eventually give up.

ModernMech 3y ago

All I am asking for is for you to do even one single solitary ounce of effort in validating your assertions. Just like, the minimal, basest, most barebones effort beyond consulting your feelings. The barest of effort is not red tape. If anything, your argument style is doing great to reinforce the status quo, because it will convince exactly 0 people to change their ways. I provided to you just the kind of evidence that would be necessary to convince people, and I have used to convince many people of exactly what you're trying to push here. Published work by experts in the field who have thought deeply about the subject, published works on the subject, and even designed and tested new curricula in a scientific manner. That is what you need to show people, not just glib statements about how what you're saying is "obvious" and how the people who are doing differently are "insane". But I didn't go about it calling people "insane" in their actions, because that's the fastest way to get an immediate stonewall. These people are not insane, they are in fact as sane as you think you are, and a huge chunk of them (could even be a majority, certainly every teacher in my department) actually agree with you. But your whole approach of disparaging the very people trying to make a difference, trying to implement the change you want to see. You are calling this system rotten and you literally have no understanding of it, as you've shown here in your posts to me. I'm open to being convinced that you know what you're talking about, but you keep telling me that you don't want to convince me, so I'll take you at your word that you know nothing about this topic you feel so passionately about. Definitely worthy of a bookmark for the best example of "Big Important Feelings" I've found in the wild so far. Cheers.

guy98238710 3y ago
> Published work by experts in the field who have thought deeply about the subject, published works on the subject, and even designed and tested new curricula in a scientific manner. This is called "paralysis by analysis", a special case of "penny wise, pound stupid". There's a lot of low-hanging fruit in education that does not need much thinking. You are free to optimize the solutions as much as you want, but don't use that as an excuse to delay change. Also, some changes (computers in particular) only bring benefits when implemented at scale. Small incremental tests will always show negative results, because they will be dominated by costs of the change. > All I am asking for is for you to do even one single solitary ounce of effort in validating your assertions. Homeschooling parents validate tons of possible changes all the time. I did it too. One thing you learn when homeschooling is that major changes can be implemented quickly, easily, and cheaply by single person. You can iterate so quickly you end up being limited by the compulsory curriculum rather than by opportunities for improvement. You then look at the glacially slow pace of change (or even regression) in "professional" education and cannot help thinking it's insane. Something must be very wrong with the system. > But your whole approach of disparaging the very people trying to make a difference Are they really trying to make a difference? My impression is that teachers just want to do the minimum work they have to do and then go home. I have never seen a teacher care the way parents care. There are exceptions, rare innovators, but exceptional teachers, if they avoid traps of educational fads and try to implement real change, quickly run into resistance. They are locked in the inertia of the large organization. Their hands are tied, they get frustrated and they eventually give up.