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> “There is a link between drug trafficking and organized retail crime,” Kobach told lawmakers in June. “Organized retail crime is a problem that is getting wor

> “There is a link between drug trafficking and organized retail crime,” Kobach told lawmakers in June. “Organized retail crime is a problem that is getting worse, not better. And it does not exist in a vacuum. These criminal enterprises often overlap with the trafficking of drugs.” Is there any reason to believe claims like these? Do they ever come with actual evidence?

1propionyl 3y ago
[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  I pity your sartorially-challenged drugs!
joejerryronnie 3y ago
The only link between organized retail crime and any other illicit activity is money. If a group is into organized retail crime, chances are they are into other illegal money making schemes, as well. That doesn’t mean the different activities are somehow intrinsically linked together.
- viraptor 3y ago
  > If a group is into organized retail crime, chances are they are into other illegal money making schemes, as well. It's that really the case? I'm actually curious - do we know if urban crime groups specialise?
  - rdtsc 3y ago
    Some do, some don’t, depending on the group and the location. Most would just drift to whatever gets them easy money. “Organized” doesn’t even have to be that large, could be a small group of accomplices that then know another group who is fencing stolen stuff. If jumping into a Target or Walmart with a large garbage bag filling it with stuff to sell later makes a few extra bucks, why not? The police and the store employees just sit there looking at you without any real consequences. So why not do it?
  - fatfingerd 3y ago
    I don't think crime groups are that significant in urban crime or black markets. There are networks of the more absolutely free market, enabled by every legal restriction, and products reuse these networks in different paths to the profit of different participants.
viraptor 3y ago
This seems weirdly mixed between the paragraphs. 1 paragraph before they mention drug use / addiction like it's about getting money for drugs. In the quoted one it's about organised drug dealing. One of those makes more sense in theory than the other... But if the reporting can't get it straight, maybe it's not really documented either?
BigRedDog1669 3y ago
I think it's just a way to generate sympathy and outrage. Maybe to try to encourage tough on crime policies that might get more police in the area. I don't think there is a reason to believe at face value it without evidence.
NewLogic 3y ago
Seems more like a distraction from the real issue and evidence of the connection between retail crime and poverty. Nobody has the political courage to call out the suppression of the American middle class as the defining factor.
- refurb 3y ago
  Poverty? I think the quote from Goodfellas sums it up nicely: For us to live any other way was nuts. Uh, to us, those goody-good people who worked shitty jobs for bum paychecks and took the subway to work every day, and worried about their bills, were dead. I mean, they were suckers. They had no balls. If we wanted something, we just took it. If anyone complained twice they got hit so bad, believe me, they never complained again.
  - yunohn 3y ago
    Ah of course, this movie quote is a very accurate representation of our complex, difficult reality. /s
  - rhaway84773 3y ago
    Anecdote != Data. The fact that it might be largely driven by poverty doesn’t preclude the existence of people who are not doing it because of poverty. That being said, nothing about your quote says anything about even the quoted person not being driven by poverty.
    - yunohn 3y ago
      It’s not even an anecdote, it’s a movie quote.
    - refurb 3y ago
      A good example are the catalytic converter thefts. It’s organized crime, easy money. Nobody is doing it to feed their kids.
  - kar5pt 3y ago
    So a quote from a movie is your counterargument?
sabayapitman 3y ago
Prominent case currently being prosecuted in New York where "law enforcement [have] seized more than $3.8 million in stolen goods from Rubinov" [1] > Roni Rubinov, accused of leading a New York City theft ring that disguised the stealing as isolated “smash and grab” incidents, even signed a lease in 2019 on a warehouse in which he planned to open a sort of “department store” of stolen goods, the mayor’s office said Thursday. The New York Times connects this particular case to drug users [2]: > “Mr. Rubinov, himself, preys on the weak,” Nicholas Fiore, the deputy inspector of the New York City Police Department’s central robbery division, said at a news conference Thursday. Mr. Rubinov often employed people who had a long history of drug use and of committing petty crimes, he said. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20230525040442/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-26/nyc-luxury-goods-theft-scheme-is-busted-ny-ag-james-announces https://web.archive.org/web/20230525040442/https://www.bloom... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20230513230507/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/nyregion/nyc-shoplifting-ring.html https://web.archive.org/web/20230513230507/https://www.nytim...
- kar5pt 3y ago
  Well that's a stretch. The original quote says it's linked to the _trafficking_ of drugs, not just drug use. If this is the only link, they're being intentionally misleading.

1propionyl 3y ago

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
I pity your sartorially-challenged drugs!

joejerryronnie 3y ago

The only link between organized retail crime and any other illicit activity is money. If a group is into organized retail crime, chances are they are into other illegal money making schemes, as well. That doesn’t mean the different activities are somehow intrinsically linked together.

viraptor 3y ago
> If a group is into organized retail crime, chances are they are into other illegal money making schemes, as well. It's that really the case? I'm actually curious - do we know if urban crime groups specialise?
- rdtsc 3y ago
  Some do, some don’t, depending on the group and the location. Most would just drift to whatever gets them easy money. “Organized” doesn’t even have to be that large, could be a small group of accomplices that then know another group who is fencing stolen stuff. If jumping into a Target or Walmart with a large garbage bag filling it with stuff to sell later makes a few extra bucks, why not? The police and the store employees just sit there looking at you without any real consequences. So why not do it?
- fatfingerd 3y ago
  I don't think crime groups are that significant in urban crime or black markets. There are networks of the more absolutely free market, enabled by every legal restriction, and products reuse these networks in different paths to the profit of different participants.

viraptor 3y ago

This seems weirdly mixed between the paragraphs. 1 paragraph before they mention drug use / addiction like it's about getting money for drugs. In the quoted one it's about organised drug dealing. One of those makes more sense in theory than the other... But if the reporting can't get it straight, maybe it's not really documented either?

BigRedDog1669 3y ago

I think it's just a way to generate sympathy and outrage. Maybe to try to encourage tough on crime policies that might get more police in the area. I don't think there is a reason to believe at face value it without evidence.

NewLogic 3y ago

Seems more like a distraction from the real issue and evidence of the connection between retail crime and poverty. Nobody has the political courage to call out the suppression of the American middle class as the defining factor.

refurb 3y ago
Poverty? I think the quote from Goodfellas sums it up nicely: For us to live any other way was nuts. Uh, to us, those goody-good people who worked shitty jobs for bum paychecks and took the subway to work every day, and worried about their bills, were dead. I mean, they were suckers. They had no balls. If we wanted something, we just took it. If anyone complained twice they got hit so bad, believe me, they never complained again.
- yunohn 3y ago
  Ah of course, this movie quote is a very accurate representation of our complex, difficult reality. /s
- rhaway84773 3y ago
  Anecdote != Data. The fact that it might be largely driven by poverty doesn’t preclude the existence of people who are not doing it because of poverty. That being said, nothing about your quote says anything about even the quoted person not being driven by poverty.
  - yunohn 3y ago
    It’s not even an anecdote, it’s a movie quote.
  - refurb 3y ago
    A good example are the catalytic converter thefts. It’s organized crime, easy money. Nobody is doing it to feed their kids.
- kar5pt 3y ago
  So a quote from a movie is your counterargument?

sabayapitman 3y ago

Prominent case currently being prosecuted in New York where "law enforcement [have] seized more than $3.8 million in stolen goods from Rubinov" [1] > Roni Rubinov, accused of leading a New York City theft ring that disguised the stealing as isolated “smash and grab” incidents, even signed a lease in 2019 on a warehouse in which he planned to open a sort of “department store” of stolen goods, the mayor’s office said Thursday. The New York Times connects this particular case to drug users [2]: > “Mr. Rubinov, himself, preys on the weak,” Nicholas Fiore, the deputy inspector of the New York City Police Department’s central robbery division, said at a news conference Thursday. Mr. Rubinov often employed people who had a long history of drug use and of committing petty crimes, he said. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20230525040442/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-26/nyc-luxury-goods-theft-scheme-is-busted-ny-ag-james-announces https://web.archive.org/web/20230525040442/https://www.bloom... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20230513230507/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/nyregion/nyc-shoplifting-ring.html https://web.archive.org/web/20230513230507/https://www.nytim...

kar5pt 3y ago
Well that's a stretch. The original quote says it's linked to the _trafficking_ of drugs, not just drug use. If this is the only link, they're being intentionally misleading.