3 ms·

I wouldn't last a day on that show, but modern man, in our pining for the olden days .. grossly underestimates the % of time & effort humans had to spend on sim

I wouldn't last a day on that show, but modern man, in our pining for the olden days .. grossly underestimates the % of time & effort humans had to spend on simply acquiring enough calories to survive.

WalterBright 3y ago
For the fauna it's a full time job, too.
defrost 3y ago
Normally, Aboriginal groups were easily able to find enough food for their entire clan in three or four hours of hunting and gathering each day. They know which fruit and animals are available at certain times, how to gather or hunt successfully and how to store foods. https://svacs.libguides.com/c.php?g=933180&p=6746395 https://svacs.libguides.com/c.php?g=933180&p=6746395 How do we know this to be true? There are still aboriginal people alive today that gather fod in the traditional manner - when I was 20 or so the Pintupi Nine wandered in, some stayed a few left and returned to the desert. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30500591 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30500591 There are still many people living hybrid lives, using modern metals and traditional knowledge to gather food, eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmCX7R-W4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmCX7R-W4c A key point here is 30+ thousand years of getting to know and shaping the landscape - promoting plants and animals over others, learning the movements and habits of animals, seasons of plants, not having closed in winters, etc.
- twelve40 3y ago
  how come famines were a thing then if this is so easy? my guess is that you probably picked a particular sparsely living group in particular favorable climate that eventually probably got wiped out by a hungrier group. furthermore, hunting for three hours no freaking way can sustain population density of say Indonesia, or some other Asian countries which have been populous for many centuries.
  - defrost 3y ago
    > how come famines were a thing then if this is so easy? What infomation do you have on pre European landing famine in Australia? > my guess is that you probably picked a particular sparsely living group The Swan Valley quote above applied to Western Australian and Central Desert groups prior to being shunted off traditional lands by European settlement (an area comfortably three times larger than Texas) - it continues to apply in areas where traditional practices on traditional lands continue. https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_highres.jpg https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_high... > that eventually probably got wiped out by a hungrier group. Recent genetics has confirmed what was also the local oral history, that people arrived, fanned out, and stayed where they first settled: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature21416 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature21416 This runs contrary to the views espoused for decades by Windshuttle in Quadrant. > furthermore, hunting for three hours no freaking way can sustain population density of say Indonesia ?? Pre Dutch contact Indonesia ? I specifically linked to the example of Australian hunter gathers. You can take it that my earlier comment doesn't apply to Iñupiat, Yupik, Aleut, Eyak, Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian, etc peoples of Alaska.
    - twelve40 3y ago
      > time & effort humans had to spend on simply acquiring enough calories so you are reducing "humans" in the comment you are replying to, to Western Australian and Central Desert groups? that's not the majority of humans, who really did have to fight for calories
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    Exactly. You don't have to go back very far to find a lot of famines even in the "developed world". Look back in history before the invention of nitrogen fertilizers (only about a century ago).. we spent nearly a century harvesting guano off uninhabited rock islands in order to produce fertilizer & gun powder. We even past laws to encourage it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    I read an article years ago where archaeologists studied the bones of pre-Columbian Native Americans. They found evidence of repeated famines.

WalterBright 3y ago

For the fauna it's a full time job, too.

defrost 3y ago

Normally, Aboriginal groups were easily able to find enough food for their entire clan in three or four hours of hunting and gathering each day. They know which fruit and animals are available at certain times, how to gather or hunt successfully and how to store foods. https://svacs.libguides.com/c.php?g=933180&p=6746395 https://svacs.libguides.com/c.php?g=933180&p=6746395 How do we know this to be true? There are still aboriginal people alive today that gather fod in the traditional manner - when I was 20 or so the Pintupi Nine wandered in, some stayed a few left and returned to the desert. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30500591 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30500591 There are still many people living hybrid lives, using modern metals and traditional knowledge to gather food, eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmCX7R-W4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmCX7R-W4c A key point here is 30+ thousand years of getting to know and shaping the landscape - promoting plants and animals over others, learning the movements and habits of animals, seasons of plants, not having closed in winters, etc.

twelve40 3y ago
how come famines were a thing then if this is so easy? my guess is that you probably picked a particular sparsely living group in particular favorable climate that eventually probably got wiped out by a hungrier group. furthermore, hunting for three hours no freaking way can sustain population density of say Indonesia, or some other Asian countries which have been populous for many centuries.
- defrost 3y ago
  > how come famines were a thing then if this is so easy? What infomation do you have on pre European landing famine in Australia? > my guess is that you probably picked a particular sparsely living group The Swan Valley quote above applied to Western Australian and Central Desert groups prior to being shunted off traditional lands by European settlement (an area comfortably three times larger than Texas) - it continues to apply in areas where traditional practices on traditional lands continue. https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_highres.jpg https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_high... > that eventually probably got wiped out by a hungrier group. Recent genetics has confirmed what was also the local oral history, that people arrived, fanned out, and stayed where they first settled: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature21416 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature21416 This runs contrary to the views espoused for decades by Windshuttle in Quadrant. > furthermore, hunting for three hours no freaking way can sustain population density of say Indonesia ?? Pre Dutch contact Indonesia ? I specifically linked to the example of Australian hunter gathers. You can take it that my earlier comment doesn't apply to Iñupiat, Yupik, Aleut, Eyak, Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian, etc peoples of Alaska.
  - twelve40 3y ago
    > time & effort humans had to spend on simply acquiring enough calories so you are reducing "humans" in the comment you are replying to, to Western Australian and Central Desert groups? that's not the majority of humans, who really did have to fight for calories
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Exactly. You don't have to go back very far to find a lot of famines even in the "developed world". Look back in history before the invention of nitrogen fertilizers (only about a century ago).. we spent nearly a century harvesting guano off uninhabited rock islands in order to produce fertilizer & gun powder. We even past laws to encourage it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act
- WalterBright 3y ago
  I read an article years ago where archaeologists studied the bones of pre-Columbian Native Americans. They found evidence of repeated famines.