8 ms·

That sounds incredibly backwards to me. How about accepting new realities and changing homework assignments instead?

by konha 3y ago

treeman79 3y ago
It’s also acceptable for a kid to lean to read a book. She’s behind on reading and comprehension. Getting the summary isn’t helping to solve that.
JimtheCoder 3y ago
"How about accepting new realities and changing homework assignments instead?" Suggestions for how to change homework assignments? It seems like a difficult problem, so reverting to hand writing things with no phones is probably the best option for now...in my opinion.
- musicale 3y ago
  1. As you note, consider eliminating it, or replacing it with in-class or lab work if it's absolutely necessary. 2. Consider making it non-graded (optionally providing feedback if desired that will not be counted in course grading.) 3. Require oral/in-person explanation of homework to paid peer assistants recruited from the previous cohort. 4. For writing, change to a writing workshop model where ChatGPT is a permitted tool that is incorporated into the workshop and students can learn how it can be helpful and how it can run astray. Help students to find and write in their own distinctive voice, even if they are assisted by ChatGPT.
- konha 3y ago
  Have students work with ChatGPT and let them spot / mark where the AI is hallucinating or wrong? Might translate well to general competence wrt working with any kind of source online.
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    So they Google it?
    - konha 3y ago
      So? Don‘t know what kind of homework you‘re thinking about. But using Google to do research doesn’t exactly sound like a problem to me.
      - JimtheCoder 3y ago
        It is more so the fact that someone takes something from ChatGPT, and then just feeds potentially contentious assertions into Google to see if they are true or not. What does someone learn from doing this? What happens when they actually have to use their brain to do something hard? At this point, why bother?
        camdat 3y ago
        If someone plugs math into a calculator, are they really learning something when it spits out an answer? Of course! How to apply the calculator to problems, and how to discern if a problem is calculator-solveable. We've decided as a society it's better for students to use calculators as a tool in mathematics, why is chatGPT different in literature?
        nerdbert 3y ago
        You can't type your homework into a calculator and get the answer out (at least not after basic arithmetic). You have to understand the problem and how to use the tool. If one's understanding of how to use the tool is limited to "access the tool and dump in the question, then blindly paste the response into my homework document", I'd say you are not learning much. It's obvious that every contemporary teenager can learn that in a few minutes. That's not giving us the capabilities to move forward as a society.
        flangola7 3y ago
ryan93 3y ago
[flagged]
DryLabRebel 3y ago
The world is changing, and children should change with it. Learn and understand technology, and the benefits of where modern machine learning is taking us. But you cannot unironically think we can substitute fundamental skills like essay writing and critical thinking for a degree in 'prompt engineering'?
- flangola7 3y ago
  Essay writing has already become an old world archaic skill in my mind, like a seamstress or blacksmith. People still produce clothing and metal tools, but with 1000x fewer labor hours for the same amount of output and the process looks completely different. Even most of my personal messages get LLMed if they need to be very long or have to explain something complicated. Critical thinking is still a skill, but even there GPT-4 is great at giving suggestions and ideas when you're not sure what to do. I got into a long recurring argument with extended family members at an event last month. I pulled out my laptop and dropped in everyone's complaints into GPT and asked the best way to move forward. An argument that normally would have gone on for hours was over in 20 minutes, and we actually felt a sense of mutual understanding for once. The world is changing very rapidly right now.
- wussboy 3y ago
  You forgot “and drawbacks” after “And the benefits”.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  > But you cannot unironically think we can substitute fundamental skills like essay writing and critical thinking for a degree in 'prompt engineering'? Personally, I don't think that. However, I also think it's logical and good for a child to consider the task at hand and select the most efficient tool available. I am not this girl's parent, and I'm not sure how I would have handled the situation if I was. However, I worry that simply taking away her phone may have been counterproductive. I would have erred toward some sort of open conversation about the purpose of the assignment and what she is hoping to learn.
  - treeman79 3y ago

That sounds incredibly backwards to me. How about accepting new realities and changing homework assignments instead?

by konha 3y ago

That sounds incredibly backwards to me. How about accepting new realities and changing homework assignments instead?

It’s also acceptable for a kid to lean to read a book. She’s behind on reading and comprehension. Getting the summary isn’t helping to solve that.

JimtheCoder 3y ago

"How about accepting new realities and changing homework assignments instead?" Suggestions for how to change homework assignments? It seems like a difficult problem, so reverting to hand writing things with no phones is probably the best option for now...in my opinion.

musicale 3y ago
1. As you note, consider eliminating it, or replacing it with in-class or lab work if it's absolutely necessary. 2. Consider making it non-graded (optionally providing feedback if desired that will not be counted in course grading.) 3. Require oral/in-person explanation of homework to paid peer assistants recruited from the previous cohort. 4. For writing, change to a writing workshop model where ChatGPT is a permitted tool that is incorporated into the workshop and students can learn how it can be helpful and how it can run astray. Help students to find and write in their own distinctive voice, even if they are assisted by ChatGPT.
konha 3y ago
Have students work with ChatGPT and let them spot / mark where the AI is hallucinating or wrong? Might translate well to general competence wrt working with any kind of source online.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  So they Google it?
  - konha 3y ago
    So? Don‘t know what kind of homework you‘re thinking about. But using Google to do research doesn’t exactly sound like a problem to me.
    - JimtheCoder 3y ago
      It is more so the fact that someone takes something from ChatGPT, and then just feeds potentially contentious assertions into Google to see if they are true or not. What does someone learn from doing this? What happens when they actually have to use their brain to do something hard? At this point, why bother?
      - camdat 3y ago
        If someone plugs math into a calculator, are they really learning something when it spits out an answer? Of course! How to apply the calculator to problems, and how to discern if a problem is calculator-solveable. We've decided as a society it's better for students to use calculators as a tool in mathematics, why is chatGPT different in literature?
        nerdbert 3y ago
        You can't type your homework into a calculator and get the answer out (at least not after basic arithmetic). You have to understand the problem and how to use the tool. If one's understanding of how to use the tool is limited to "access the tool and dump in the question, then blindly paste the response into my homework document", I'd say you are not learning much. It's obvious that every contemporary teenager can learn that in a few minutes. That's not giving us the capabilities to move forward as a society.
        flangola7 3y ago

ryan93 3y ago

[flagged]

DryLabRebel 3y ago

The world is changing, and children should change with it. Learn and understand technology, and the benefits of where modern machine learning is taking us. But you cannot unironically think we can substitute fundamental skills like essay writing and critical thinking for a degree in 'prompt engineering'?

flangola7 3y ago
Essay writing has already become an old world archaic skill in my mind, like a seamstress or blacksmith. People still produce clothing and metal tools, but with 1000x fewer labor hours for the same amount of output and the process looks completely different. Even most of my personal messages get LLMed if they need to be very long or have to explain something complicated. Critical thinking is still a skill, but even there GPT-4 is great at giving suggestions and ideas when you're not sure what to do. I got into a long recurring argument with extended family members at an event last month. I pulled out my laptop and dropped in everyone's complaints into GPT and asked the best way to move forward. An argument that normally would have gone on for hours was over in 20 minutes, and we actually felt a sense of mutual understanding for once. The world is changing very rapidly right now.
wussboy 3y ago
You forgot “and drawbacks” after “And the benefits”.
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
> But you cannot unironically think we can substitute fundamental skills like essay writing and critical thinking for a degree in 'prompt engineering'? Personally, I don't think that. However, I also think it's logical and good for a child to consider the task at hand and select the most efficient tool available. I am not this girl's parent, and I'm not sure how I would have handled the situation if I was. However, I worry that simply taking away her phone may have been counterproductive. I would have erred toward some sort of open conversation about the purpose of the assignment and what she is hoping to learn.
- treeman79 3y ago