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It's hard not to think that all of this radicalization is being programmed .. not just with billionaires, but with regular people as well. Youtube suggestions

by ratg13 3y ago

It's hard not to think that all of this radicalization is being programmed .. not just with billionaires, but with regular people as well. Youtube suggestions these days are pushing the general public to the opposite side of the same radicalization, creating an "us vs. them" scenario. I can't help but feel that this is an intentional programming to set the stage for conflict. It's teaching people to not rely on the normal methods of societal problem solving (policies, government, voting, referendums) .. and other attributes of a well structured society. People on both sides have very much given up on compromise or even the idea that society can be governed and now everyone's "my way or we burn everything to the ground" It's hard not to think this is intentional programming on a mass scale.

AftHurrahWinch 3y ago
Interesting thought! I think it's inarguable that online discourse is intentionally argumentative in some cases, at least as I understand it that's the definition of trolling and it's trivial to find people who self-identify as trolls. Several people have AirDropped bomb threats on airplanes [0] just for the perverse joy of causing panic, and I'm sure there are many more causing intentional panic on every other available platform and venue. I don't mean to suggest that you believe that there is a simple explanation for this, but I think that like most phenomena there are probably many causes. Like perhaps elite overproduction [1], and the fact that the Gini coefficient [2] and its anti-democratic consequences in the developed world are nearing the level right before the revolutionary period of the 18th century. [0]: https://archive.ph/L2dZV https://archive.ph/L2dZV [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_overproduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_overproduction [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
jfengel 3y ago
The problem is that it only takes one side to give up on compromise. The other side can't make it happen on their own. They can continue to give things away, in the hopes of attracting people to the notion of compromise, but there's no particular reason to expect that to work. Objecting to extremism can look like lack of compromise. And extremism is a tactic that can work for one side. They appear firm and resolute, and attracts enthusiasm. Willingness to compromise looks wishy-washy, and drives away the people with the most at stake. So I agree that this is intentional programming, but I don't think it requires any kind of shadowy cabal ruling over everybody. It's the result of ordinary political dynamics. A small tendency to extremism gets exaggerated by political success. The political leadership on both sides will have to adjust to that. Ultimately, it relies on how much people enjoy winning at politics versus how much they want their society to resolve its differences. Each has its attractions, but technology has tended to favor the former. Propaganda has always been a thing, but it is increasingly possible to portray politics as a life-or-death situation in which any compromise is an existential loss. You'd think that could be defeated by either common sense or common decency. It turns out both are rarer than you'd like to think. It turns out it takes only a largish minority of people to ditch them and be successful.

by ratg13 3y ago

AftHurrahWinch 3y ago

Interesting thought! I think it's inarguable that online discourse is intentionally argumentative in some cases, at least as I understand it that's the definition of trolling and it's trivial to find people who self-identify as trolls. Several people have AirDropped bomb threats on airplanes [0] just for the perverse joy of causing panic, and I'm sure there are many more causing intentional panic on every other available platform and venue. I don't mean to suggest that you believe that there is a simple explanation for this, but I think that like most phenomena there are probably many causes. Like perhaps elite overproduction [1], and the fact that the Gini coefficient [2] and its anti-democratic consequences in the developed world are nearing the level right before the revolutionary period of the 18th century. [0]: https://archive.ph/L2dZV https://archive.ph/L2dZV [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_overproduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_overproduction [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

jfengel 3y ago

The problem is that it only takes one side to give up on compromise. The other side can't make it happen on their own. They can continue to give things away, in the hopes of attracting people to the notion of compromise, but there's no particular reason to expect that to work. Objecting to extremism can look like lack of compromise. And extremism is a tactic that can work for one side. They appear firm and resolute, and attracts enthusiasm. Willingness to compromise looks wishy-washy, and drives away the people with the most at stake. So I agree that this is intentional programming, but I don't think it requires any kind of shadowy cabal ruling over everybody. It's the result of ordinary political dynamics. A small tendency to extremism gets exaggerated by political success. The political leadership on both sides will have to adjust to that. Ultimately, it relies on how much people enjoy winning at politics versus how much they want their society to resolve its differences. Each has its attractions, but technology has tended to favor the former. Propaganda has always been a thing, but it is increasingly possible to portray politics as a life-or-death situation in which any compromise is an existential loss. You'd think that could be defeated by either common sense or common decency. It turns out both are rarer than you'd like to think. It turns out it takes only a largish minority of people to ditch them and be successful.