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> since usage is predictable I think this is the important bit. Amazon knows on exactly which routes a full battery and a full load of packages line up, so th

> since usage is predictable I think this is the important bit. Amazon knows on exactly which routes a full battery and a full load of packages line up, so they can put the EVs on those routes.

kotaKat 3y ago
Another thing I was just thinking of this morning was that you could implement possible charging into a route of packages -- pushing an automatic break in for a driver to stop for 10-15 minutes and grab a DC fast charge somewhere. It'd almost be a win-win: the driver gets a predictable break on the route (and knows they get a break!) and you can keep the vehicle on route longer. On top of that, while plugged in, they can keep cool/warm in the vehicle without having to idle it or have additional wear and tear...
- taeric 3y ago
  It ultimately doesn't pan out that well. Will work right up til someone finds that they can get a % more delivered without doing the stops. You can see this in long race formats that have breaks. Teams that find a way to not do the break wind up winning. Such that you then have to mandate them, which works for things that people don't get value out of. We already have similar mandates for truck driving, and I think most folks would be surprised that that exists. And they are far looser than what would be required for last mile driving.
  - yebyen 3y ago
    > Teams that find a way to not do the break wind up winning Teams that don't take the break will be inhibited by the limited range of their un-recharged vehicles. Are you suggesting that some people will find out how to swap their vehicles, and keep the shift going? (Or add an extra length of hose to the fuel line, for a virtually bigger tank? That type of trick isn't going to work well with battery vehicles...) How is it you propose that someone is going to get more work done in less time, when their total range / route length is reduced by the extra effective distance they would have been able to continue with 15 minutes of fast charging added in, at the one or two points where it makes sense to add a stop in their shifts?
    - taeric 3y ago
      Mandated breaks being what they are, you are going to find it hard to codify it in such a way that fits all locales, ultimately. Some routes will just take more power, for reasons. Then, later, they would find that the newer batteries actually can get by with smaller breaks. Or other efficiency gains that we just aren't thinking about. My point wasn't that it would fail immediately, but it would eventually.
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      > How is it you propose that someone is going to get more work done in less time, when their total range / route length is reduced by the extra effective distance they would have been able to continue with 15 minutes of fast charging added in, at the one or two points where it makes sense to add a stop in their shifts? By throwing the furthest of their deliveries into the nearest lake, and coming back early with an empty truck and charge remaining. Drivers don't want to sit around waiting for a recharge. They want to clear the truck and go home.
      - yebyen 3y ago
        That's not an optimization, lol, and it's not an answer. If the 20 minute recharge was built into a break, with a fast charger, that's going to add an extra 120 miles onto the delivery route range. IDK how many miles Amazon routes are expected to drive in an 8-10 hour shift, but given that the top range of the vehicles is about 350-400 miles with the biggest battery, that's almost an extra 35% of range. If the trucks go far enough, and the drivers don't need breaks, then say that I guess. Drivers don't want to do their job is not an engineering problem, whereas delivering more packages per shift could be one.
- jeffrallen 3y ago
  Amazon workers don't get breaks. They work until they break.

> since usage is predictable I think this is the important bit. Amazon knows on exactly which routes a full battery and a full load of packages line up, so they can put the EVs on those routes.

kotaKat 3y ago

Another thing I was just thinking of this morning was that you could implement possible charging into a route of packages -- pushing an automatic break in for a driver to stop for 10-15 minutes and grab a DC fast charge somewhere. It'd almost be a win-win: the driver gets a predictable break on the route (and knows they get a break!) and you can keep the vehicle on route longer. On top of that, while plugged in, they can keep cool/warm in the vehicle without having to idle it or have additional wear and tear...

taeric 3y ago
It ultimately doesn't pan out that well. Will work right up til someone finds that they can get a % more delivered without doing the stops. You can see this in long race formats that have breaks. Teams that find a way to not do the break wind up winning. Such that you then have to mandate them, which works for things that people don't get value out of. We already have similar mandates for truck driving, and I think most folks would be surprised that that exists. And they are far looser than what would be required for last mile driving.
- yebyen 3y ago
  > Teams that find a way to not do the break wind up winning Teams that don't take the break will be inhibited by the limited range of their un-recharged vehicles. Are you suggesting that some people will find out how to swap their vehicles, and keep the shift going? (Or add an extra length of hose to the fuel line, for a virtually bigger tank? That type of trick isn't going to work well with battery vehicles...) How is it you propose that someone is going to get more work done in less time, when their total range / route length is reduced by the extra effective distance they would have been able to continue with 15 minutes of fast charging added in, at the one or two points where it makes sense to add a stop in their shifts?
  - taeric 3y ago
    Mandated breaks being what they are, you are going to find it hard to codify it in such a way that fits all locales, ultimately. Some routes will just take more power, for reasons. Then, later, they would find that the newer batteries actually can get by with smaller breaks. Or other efficiency gains that we just aren't thinking about. My point wasn't that it would fail immediately, but it would eventually.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    > How is it you propose that someone is going to get more work done in less time, when their total range / route length is reduced by the extra effective distance they would have been able to continue with 15 minutes of fast charging added in, at the one or two points where it makes sense to add a stop in their shifts? By throwing the furthest of their deliveries into the nearest lake, and coming back early with an empty truck and charge remaining. Drivers don't want to sit around waiting for a recharge. They want to clear the truck and go home.
    - yebyen 3y ago
      That's not an optimization, lol, and it's not an answer. If the 20 minute recharge was built into a break, with a fast charger, that's going to add an extra 120 miles onto the delivery route range. IDK how many miles Amazon routes are expected to drive in an 8-10 hour shift, but given that the top range of the vehicles is about 350-400 miles with the biggest battery, that's almost an extra 35% of range. If the trucks go far enough, and the drivers don't need breaks, then say that I guess. Drivers don't want to do their job is not an engineering problem, whereas delivering more packages per shift could be one.
jeffrallen 3y ago
Amazon workers don't get breaks. They work until they break.