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> why cops are shooting unarmed kids. Which unarmed kid? A car is a deadly weapon if you've been driving it through crosswalks at high speed. If your family h

> why cops are shooting unarmed kids. Which unarmed kid? A car is a deadly weapon if you've been driving it through crosswalks at high speed. If your family had been in that crosswalk you'd be complaining about the lack of policing.

JamesLeonis 3y ago
So cops should kill every driver they suspect of being dangerous?
- LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
  Every driver who was fleeing at high speed through civilians, and who attempts to do it again, yes. Absolutely. It's literally the time they're supposed to shoot. I'll quote US law here because it's in English, but it's pretty much the same worldwide. > "1-16.200 - DEADLY FORCE - Law enforcement officers and correctional officers of the Department of Justice may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person." Fleeing wouldn't be enough, but fleeing in a car after reckless driving that already endangered civilians is.
  - JamesLeonis 3y ago
    Were these men speeding through civilians or fleeing dangerously when they were shot? https://thegrio.com/2021/08/29/footage-of-police-shooting-man-who-was-asleep-gilmore/ https://thegrio.com/2021/08/29/footage-of-police-shooting-ma... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/12/willie-mccoy-shooting-vallejo-police-55-shots https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/12/willie-mccoy... Before you answer... Do you want others to make the same excuse as you if you were shot by the cops?
    - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
      > Were these men speeding through civilians or fleeing dangerously when they were shot? No, the men in your stories were sleeping in their cars. One was shot 55 times. The driver in France had just been witnessed fleeing through civilian traffic and crosswalks. They saw him commit a crime and try to flee to continue risking others' lives. He was shot once, only when he tried to escape. What do you think these stories have in common? > Do you want others to make the same excuse as you if you were shot by the cops? If I was risking other people's lives by fleeing from police and used deadly force to try to escape, then yeah. It's not "an excuse", it's their literal job. They tried to detain him peacefully.
  - ibejoeb 3y ago
    Additionally, he ran through the cop that was propped up on the hood and windshield of the car. We hear the engine rev up, and he accelerates away. It's egregious. For even more context, here's the specific relevant part of french law for this type of vehicular situation (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000034107970 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000...) is: "les conducteurs n'obtempèrent pas à l'ordre d'arrêt et dont les occupants sont susceptibles de perpétrer, dans leur fuite, des atteintes à leur vie ou à leur intégrité physique ou à celles d'autru" meaning, "drivers do not comply with the stop order and whose occupants are likely to perpetrate, in their flight, harm to their lives or bodily injury or to those of others"
jakelazaroff 3y ago
Comments like this are why I don't really buy the "distraction" framing. Folks will bend over backwards to find any pretext justifying the murder of people they don't like, no distraction necessary.
- ibejoeb 3y ago
  Maybe in some circumstances, sure. There is good reason not to like this person, who demonstrated the will and ability to hurt or even kill innocent people.
  - jakelazaroff 3y ago
    By fleeing the police who murdered him? I appreciate that you can’t drop the façade for even a moment or the whole house of cards comes tumbling down, but I just want you to know that no one is actually fooled.
    - ibejoeb 3y ago
      That's a lot of metaphors and innuendo. Can you explain a bit more plainly?
      - jakelazaroff 3y ago
        Sorry, not trying to use innuendo! I’m explicitly saying that you’re using a post hoc justification for Nahel Merzouk’s murder because you’d already decided that it’s okay for police to murder people like him.
        LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
        What does "people like him" mean, is that some racist dog whistle? > you’d already decided that it’s okay Before I heard his race, yes. Based on the fact that he'd risked people's lives before they stopped him and he was trying to flee to do it again. The police gave him a warning and a chance to surrender. > to murder [him] Shooting a violent criminal to prevent imminent further violence is the epitome of justification. > I just want you to know that no one is actually fooled. I assure you, no fooling, that I'd support shooting whatever color of criminal was driving the car. My thoughts are with the pedestrians they nearly hit and those people's families, and the police officers who risked their safety to stop him.

JamesLeonis 3y ago

So cops should kill every driver they suspect of being dangerous?

LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
Every driver who was fleeing at high speed through civilians, and who attempts to do it again, yes. Absolutely. It's literally the time they're supposed to shoot. I'll quote US law here because it's in English, but it's pretty much the same worldwide. > "1-16.200 - DEADLY FORCE - Law enforcement officers and correctional officers of the Department of Justice may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person." Fleeing wouldn't be enough, but fleeing in a car after reckless driving that already endangered civilians is.
- JamesLeonis 3y ago
  Were these men speeding through civilians or fleeing dangerously when they were shot? https://thegrio.com/2021/08/29/footage-of-police-shooting-man-who-was-asleep-gilmore/ https://thegrio.com/2021/08/29/footage-of-police-shooting-ma... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/12/willie-mccoy-shooting-vallejo-police-55-shots https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/12/willie-mccoy... Before you answer... Do you want others to make the same excuse as you if you were shot by the cops?
  - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
    > Were these men speeding through civilians or fleeing dangerously when they were shot? No, the men in your stories were sleeping in their cars. One was shot 55 times. The driver in France had just been witnessed fleeing through civilian traffic and crosswalks. They saw him commit a crime and try to flee to continue risking others' lives. He was shot once, only when he tried to escape. What do you think these stories have in common? > Do you want others to make the same excuse as you if you were shot by the cops? If I was risking other people's lives by fleeing from police and used deadly force to try to escape, then yeah. It's not "an excuse", it's their literal job. They tried to detain him peacefully.
- ibejoeb 3y ago
  Additionally, he ran through the cop that was propped up on the hood and windshield of the car. We hear the engine rev up, and he accelerates away. It's egregious. For even more context, here's the specific relevant part of french law for this type of vehicular situation (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000034107970 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000...) is: "les conducteurs n'obtempèrent pas à l'ordre d'arrêt et dont les occupants sont susceptibles de perpétrer, dans leur fuite, des atteintes à leur vie ou à leur intégrité physique ou à celles d'autru" meaning, "drivers do not comply with the stop order and whose occupants are likely to perpetrate, in their flight, harm to their lives or bodily injury or to those of others"

jakelazaroff 3y ago

Comments like this are why I don't really buy the "distraction" framing. Folks will bend over backwards to find any pretext justifying the murder of people they don't like, no distraction necessary.

ibejoeb 3y ago
Maybe in some circumstances, sure. There is good reason not to like this person, who demonstrated the will and ability to hurt or even kill innocent people.
- jakelazaroff 3y ago
  By fleeing the police who murdered him? I appreciate that you can’t drop the façade for even a moment or the whole house of cards comes tumbling down, but I just want you to know that no one is actually fooled.
  - ibejoeb 3y ago
    That's a lot of metaphors and innuendo. Can you explain a bit more plainly?
    - jakelazaroff 3y ago
      Sorry, not trying to use innuendo! I’m explicitly saying that you’re using a post hoc justification for Nahel Merzouk’s murder because you’d already decided that it’s okay for police to murder people like him.
      - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
        What does "people like him" mean, is that some racist dog whistle? > you’d already decided that it’s okay Before I heard his race, yes. Based on the fact that he'd risked people's lives before they stopped him and he was trying to flee to do it again. The police gave him a warning and a chance to surrender. > to murder [him] Shooting a violent criminal to prevent imminent further violence is the epitome of justification. > I just want you to know that no one is actually fooled. I assure you, no fooling, that I'd support shooting whatever color of criminal was driving the car. My thoughts are with the pedestrians they nearly hit and those people's families, and the police officers who risked their safety to stop him.