4 ms·

Aren’t most copper thieves hoping the wires are not live? Perhaps the thought of crossing the wrong wires and being met with 400V at 625A is a deterrent.

martinald 3y ago
Yes but the ones I've seen have giant emergency shutdown buttons which I assume kills all the power to the charging cable.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
somerandomqaguy 3y ago
Please excuse my ignorance, but why wouldn't they just cut the cable when it's not in use then? And on the flip side; there's plenty of cases with thieves cutting into live high voltage lines. This one is the most visible example I know of though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXeJ4_s8G8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXeJ4_s8G8
- hervature 3y ago
  "Not in use" means that nothing is closing the circuit. A machete going through the cable has a high likelihood of completing the circuit.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    No way a car charging cable has current running through it when it's not charging.
    - BenjiWiebe 3y ago
      That's right. It could theoretically have voltage though.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        Look im a uneducated guy so I might use the wrong terms. I suspect these work like usb cables and you negotiate a rate of charge between the charger and car (that requires some energy but not enough to hurt anyone) and then the device internally flips a switch to enable charging. If it was just live all the time I don't see how you bill anyone, they could just plug in, that also seems unsafe if say the cable is damaged or something.
        doubled112 3y ago
        They are probably (hopefully) smarter than my house, but! The power to my home is live all the time, so there is voltage. The current draw is measured to charge me money. There can be no current until I short it with a blade, then it serves me 15A until the breaker pops.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        Then why have all these different systems and standards if it's just 240 AC (or something) down a regular wire? Just use one of these[0] and call it a day. [0]https://i0.wp.com/makezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Figure_1.jpg?w=1920&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/makezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Fi...
        stringbean 3y ago
        Level 2 chargers stop at 7kW for single phase and 22kW for 3 phase. That’s fine for home or destination charging but woefully inadequate for long trips. Beyond that you need to switch to DC chargers that go directly into the battery pack. This is where it starts to get complicated as different battery architectures need different voltages and max currents.
        vel0city 3y ago
        > Level 2 chargers stop at 7kW for single phase Incorrect, at least for the US, might be different in different areas. 7kW is very common but not the limit for single-phase. J1772 can handle up to 80A/240V which would be 19.2kW of power. A Tesla Model S has a 17kW charger, so it can pull up to ~70A of power on single-phase 240V. A Mach E has an 11kW charger. A Hyundai Ioniq 5 has a 10.2kW charger on board. This doesn't change the fact this charging speed for Level 2 charging is inadequate for long road trips. Just wanting to share that level 2 charging on a single phase can be higher than 7kW.
- gottorf 3y ago
  > why wouldn't they just cut the cable when it's not in use then? It's dangerous to cut cables if you don't know which are the hot ones, since you run the risk of completing a circuit with the live wire, the scissors, your body, and the ground beneath you.
  - somerandomqaguy 3y ago
    ... wait, why would the chargers keep the the high voltage DC lines energized when not in use?
    - gottorf 3y ago
      My rough understanding is that AC conductors (energized, i.e. having a significant potential difference than ground) come into the charging stations, go through an inverter, after which point the DC conductors may or may not be energized. I don't think copper thieves would be able to tell accurately which wires are which. Mind you, I'm not an electrician or electrical engineer; I just work on my home wiring sometimes.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        The cables from the dispenser to the car plug end shouldn't be energized unless the car and charger negotiate it. They're not sitting at 400VDC all the time.
MisterTea 3y ago
Most copper thieves are at rock bottom - likely feeding hard drug habits and have few firing brain cells left. There have been plenty killed trying to steal wiring from substations and rail but they keep doing it despite the dangers thanks to desperation.
kccqzy 3y ago
Since you mentioned 625A, I actually recently discovered that the Tesla superchargers only have a rated amperage of 350A or thereabouts, but the chargers simply do a lot of thermal monitoring to compensate the fact that actual amperage is higher than rated amperage. That's smart: you can use thinner wires which are easier to handle, has less copper so isn't a target for theft comparatively.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

martinald 3y ago

Yes but the ones I've seen have giant emergency shutdown buttons which I assume kills all the power to the charging cable.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

somerandomqaguy 3y ago

Please excuse my ignorance, but why wouldn't they just cut the cable when it's not in use then? And on the flip side; there's plenty of cases with thieves cutting into live high voltage lines. This one is the most visible example I know of though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXeJ4_s8G8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXeJ4_s8G8

hervature 3y ago
"Not in use" means that nothing is closing the circuit. A machete going through the cable has a high likelihood of completing the circuit.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  No way a car charging cable has current running through it when it's not charging.
  - BenjiWiebe 3y ago
    That's right. It could theoretically have voltage though.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Look im a uneducated guy so I might use the wrong terms. I suspect these work like usb cables and you negotiate a rate of charge between the charger and car (that requires some energy but not enough to hurt anyone) and then the device internally flips a switch to enable charging. If it was just live all the time I don't see how you bill anyone, they could just plug in, that also seems unsafe if say the cable is damaged or something.
      - doubled112 3y ago
        They are probably (hopefully) smarter than my house, but! The power to my home is live all the time, so there is voltage. The current draw is measured to charge me money. There can be no current until I short it with a blade, then it serves me 15A until the breaker pops.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        Then why have all these different systems and standards if it's just 240 AC (or something) down a regular wire? Just use one of these[0] and call it a day. [0]https://i0.wp.com/makezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Figure_1.jpg?w=1920&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/makezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Fi...
        stringbean 3y ago
        Level 2 chargers stop at 7kW for single phase and 22kW for 3 phase. That’s fine for home or destination charging but woefully inadequate for long trips. Beyond that you need to switch to DC chargers that go directly into the battery pack. This is where it starts to get complicated as different battery architectures need different voltages and max currents.
        vel0city 3y ago
        > Level 2 chargers stop at 7kW for single phase Incorrect, at least for the US, might be different in different areas. 7kW is very common but not the limit for single-phase. J1772 can handle up to 80A/240V which would be 19.2kW of power. A Tesla Model S has a 17kW charger, so it can pull up to ~70A of power on single-phase 240V. A Mach E has an 11kW charger. A Hyundai Ioniq 5 has a 10.2kW charger on board. This doesn't change the fact this charging speed for Level 2 charging is inadequate for long road trips. Just wanting to share that level 2 charging on a single phase can be higher than 7kW.
gottorf 3y ago
> why wouldn't they just cut the cable when it's not in use then? It's dangerous to cut cables if you don't know which are the hot ones, since you run the risk of completing a circuit with the live wire, the scissors, your body, and the ground beneath you.
- somerandomqaguy 3y ago
  ... wait, why would the chargers keep the the high voltage DC lines energized when not in use?
  - gottorf 3y ago
    My rough understanding is that AC conductors (energized, i.e. having a significant potential difference than ground) come into the charging stations, go through an inverter, after which point the DC conductors may or may not be energized. I don't think copper thieves would be able to tell accurately which wires are which. Mind you, I'm not an electrician or electrical engineer; I just work on my home wiring sometimes.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      The cables from the dispenser to the car plug end shouldn't be energized unless the car and charger negotiate it. They're not sitting at 400VDC all the time.

MisterTea 3y ago

Most copper thieves are at rock bottom - likely feeding hard drug habits and have few firing brain cells left. There have been plenty killed trying to steal wiring from substations and rail but they keep doing it despite the dangers thanks to desperation.

kccqzy 3y ago

Since you mentioned 625A, I actually recently discovered that the Tesla superchargers only have a rated amperage of 350A or thereabouts, but the chargers simply do a lot of thermal monitoring to compensate the fact that actual amperage is higher than rated amperage. That's smart: you can use thinner wires which are easier to handle, has less copper so isn't a target for theft comparatively.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]