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>To be clear Russia is already using cluster munitions in Ukraine. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2022/02/28/press-briefing-by-press-

>To be clear Russia is already using cluster munitions in Ukraine. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2022/02/28/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-february-28-2022/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/202... "Q Thanks, Jen. There are reports of illegal cluster bombs and vacuum bombs being used by the Russians. If that’s true, what is the next step of this administration? And is there a red line for how much violence will be tolerated against civilians in this manner that’s illegal and potentially a war crime? MS. PSAKI: It is — it would be. I don’t have any confirmation of that. We have seen the reports. If that were true, it would potentially be a war crime. "

defrost 3y ago
^^ 28th Feb 2022, more than a year ago. Slightly over a month ago: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/29/cluster-munition-use-russia-ukraine-war https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/29/cluster-munition-use-rus... Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, Russian armed forces have used cluster munitions in attacks that have caused hundreds of civilian casualties and damaged civilian objects, including homes, hospitals, and schools. The Ukrainian military has not denied credible evidence of its own use of cluster munitions in the conflict and has publicly asked to be supplied with the weapon.
- Jimmc414 3y ago
  The point of my comment was the hypocrisy of the US position on sending cluster bombs to Ukraine.
  - melling 3y ago
    Not sure how you did that. The point was about using cluster bombs on civilians. The Ukrainians will be using them in their own country. Not on civilians
  - lisasays 3y ago
    We get the point. But at the end of the day, it's not much one. For one thing - the spokesperson was speaking off the cuff, and obviously not informed about the ins and outs of existing treaties regarding cluster munitions. Or the existing US stance in this regard. What it all comes down to is: like it or not, the US is not a signatory to the CCM (the one treaty everyone refers to in regard to these things). Nor is Russia. Also, all throughout the Iraq and Afghanistan wars the US has defended its use of cluster munitions left, right and center. So, while you can make of these munitions what you will - strictly speaking it's not "illegal" for Russia to US them. Not "hypocritical" for the US to condemn other countries for using them (aside from random, unorchestrated statements as from this one spokesperson). Because the US never does that. Granted, the matter is more nuanced than this: in fact, all of the rest of NATO is a signatory to the CCM, so that brings up valid issues of hypocrisy, via the transitive property. But on a broader, and much more important level: is hypocrisy really your main concern? What about condemning and ending the war itself? The thing is - when people complain about "hypocrisy", but not the infinitely larger evil of the invasion and the intentional targeting of civilians itself - one has to wonder.

defrost 3y ago

^^ 28th Feb 2022, more than a year ago. Slightly over a month ago: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/29/cluster-munition-use-russia-ukraine-war https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/29/cluster-munition-use-rus... Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, Russian armed forces have used cluster munitions in attacks that have caused hundreds of civilian casualties and damaged civilian objects, including homes, hospitals, and schools. The Ukrainian military has not denied credible evidence of its own use of cluster munitions in the conflict and has publicly asked to be supplied with the weapon.

Jimmc414 3y ago
The point of my comment was the hypocrisy of the US position on sending cluster bombs to Ukraine.
- melling 3y ago
  Not sure how you did that. The point was about using cluster bombs on civilians. The Ukrainians will be using them in their own country. Not on civilians
- lisasays 3y ago
  We get the point. But at the end of the day, it's not much one. For one thing - the spokesperson was speaking off the cuff, and obviously not informed about the ins and outs of existing treaties regarding cluster munitions. Or the existing US stance in this regard. What it all comes down to is: like it or not, the US is not a signatory to the CCM (the one treaty everyone refers to in regard to these things). Nor is Russia. Also, all throughout the Iraq and Afghanistan wars the US has defended its use of cluster munitions left, right and center. So, while you can make of these munitions what you will - strictly speaking it's not "illegal" for Russia to US them. Not "hypocritical" for the US to condemn other countries for using them (aside from random, unorchestrated statements as from this one spokesperson). Because the US never does that. Granted, the matter is more nuanced than this: in fact, all of the rest of NATO is a signatory to the CCM, so that brings up valid issues of hypocrisy, via the transitive property. But on a broader, and much more important level: is hypocrisy really your main concern? What about condemning and ending the war itself? The thing is - when people complain about "hypocrisy", but not the infinitely larger evil of the invasion and the intentional targeting of civilians itself - one has to wonder.