4 ms·

Except where it's not. In the Atlanta metro area housing prices are sky high not due to regulation or material costs but due to demand. Presumably from people

Except where it's not. In the Atlanta metro area housing prices are sky high not due to regulation or material costs but due to demand. Presumably from people trying to escape regulation and high material costs.

antiframe 3y ago
The Atlanta metro area doesn't have any zoning regulation? That's the first I've heard of it. Cool. So, what would housing prices be if Atlanta did have restrictions? The research says higher. But, it's hard to show that with any rigor since what would you compare Atlanta with? Every city is different and it's a challenge to get a good comparison.
- brodouevencode 3y ago
  Atlanta has minimal regs compared to other very large cities. The code enforcement here is about as minimal as it gets, and (back when I did construction) there was certainly no proactive enforcement like I've heard friends complain about in places like LA - it was very reactive. I can't imagine it's changed that much.
hondo77 3y ago
Why isn't there enough supply in Atlanta?
- brodouevencode 3y ago
  It hasn't caught up yet. This phenomenon is only a few years old, and Atlanta hasn't been seen as the "escape city" quite like Austin, Charlotte, or Nashville.
- rank0 3y ago
  It’s been growing consistently for like the past decade. Builders gotta build and they’re definitely working at it! It just takes time and demand has increased very quickly.
LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
Same thing in Houston, which is essentially a zoning-free city. Going after regulations is a red herring: the real problem is the investor class snapping up the housing supply. I bought a townhome last year at the height of the market in a great and competitive neighborhood, paid a very reasonable price and faced zero counter offers. Why? My HOA agreement has provisions that prevent the owner from using the property as a short-term rental. Contrast that to single family homes that were going hundreds above asking price and with cash offers. As soon as you remove the incentive to purchase a home purely as an investment, the experience improves dramatically for buyers looking for a place to live.
- throw0101a 3y ago
  > Same thing in Houston, which is essentially a zoning-free city. While there may not be 'traditional' zoning, there seem to be a bunch of regulations: > There are a number of reasons this line of questioning is a mistake, but the most fundamental one is that people misunderstand what “no zoning” means in the Houston context. If land use in Houston were genuinely unregulated, then this Nancy Sarnoff article[1] about possible revisions to Houston land use rules would make no sense. In fact, the city features extensive regulation of minimum lot size and maximum parking requirements just like every other major American city. * https://slate.com/business/2011/11/the-myth-of-zoning-free-houston.html https://slate.com/business/2011/11/the-myth-of-zoning-free-h... > What are the real-life impacts? When the rental property developers press in, people can petition for their areas to be classified as historic. In effect, people are using [historic] district-making in place of zoning to push back against change. * https://www.deeds.com/articles/houston-the-zoning-free-city-right/ https://www.deeds.com/articles/houston-the-zoning-free-city-... > This buffering ordinance is the latest edition in the city’s history of enacting land-use regulations without using the word “zoning.” Urban planners and scholars have long debated whether Houston has zoning codes that are clad in terms like “buffering.” The reality is that Houston has created a host of regulations that govern what can be built where. * https://therealdeal.com/texas/2023/03/16/dont-say-the-z-word/ https://therealdeal.com/texas/2023/03/16/dont-say-the-z-word...
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  > Houston, which is essentially a zoning-free city. This is a misconception: https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/forget-what-youve-heard-houston-really-does-have-zoning-sort https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/forget-what-youve-heard-ho...
Guvante 3y ago
So there is a large supply of high density housing? If housing prices are going up and higher density housing isn't going up then you have regulation blocking it. After all if people are willing to pay a $2,000 mortgage for a home you can put 4 apartments in that space and trivially get $1,000 rent for each. Note that doesn't scale down much and so lower cost of living places not going high density makes sense. In either case a normal sized house in Southern California isn't worth over a million dollars because of material costs and only indirectly due to regulation. The core reason is always demand outstrips supply. OP is saying "you can't have a balance if you restrict the supply".

antiframe 3y ago

The Atlanta metro area doesn't have any zoning regulation? That's the first I've heard of it. Cool. So, what would housing prices be if Atlanta did have restrictions? The research says higher. But, it's hard to show that with any rigor since what would you compare Atlanta with? Every city is different and it's a challenge to get a good comparison.

brodouevencode 3y ago
Atlanta has minimal regs compared to other very large cities. The code enforcement here is about as minimal as it gets, and (back when I did construction) there was certainly no proactive enforcement like I've heard friends complain about in places like LA - it was very reactive. I can't imagine it's changed that much.

hondo77 3y ago

Why isn't there enough supply in Atlanta?

brodouevencode 3y ago
It hasn't caught up yet. This phenomenon is only a few years old, and Atlanta hasn't been seen as the "escape city" quite like Austin, Charlotte, or Nashville.
rank0 3y ago
It’s been growing consistently for like the past decade. Builders gotta build and they’re definitely working at it! It just takes time and demand has increased very quickly.

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago

Same thing in Houston, which is essentially a zoning-free city. Going after regulations is a red herring: the real problem is the investor class snapping up the housing supply. I bought a townhome last year at the height of the market in a great and competitive neighborhood, paid a very reasonable price and faced zero counter offers. Why? My HOA agreement has provisions that prevent the owner from using the property as a short-term rental. Contrast that to single family homes that were going hundreds above asking price and with cash offers. As soon as you remove the incentive to purchase a home purely as an investment, the experience improves dramatically for buyers looking for a place to live.

throw0101a 3y ago
> Same thing in Houston, which is essentially a zoning-free city. While there may not be 'traditional' zoning, there seem to be a bunch of regulations: > There are a number of reasons this line of questioning is a mistake, but the most fundamental one is that people misunderstand what “no zoning” means in the Houston context. If land use in Houston were genuinely unregulated, then this Nancy Sarnoff article[1] about possible revisions to Houston land use rules would make no sense. In fact, the city features extensive regulation of minimum lot size and maximum parking requirements just like every other major American city. * https://slate.com/business/2011/11/the-myth-of-zoning-free-houston.html https://slate.com/business/2011/11/the-myth-of-zoning-free-h... > What are the real-life impacts? When the rental property developers press in, people can petition for their areas to be classified as historic. In effect, people are using [historic] district-making in place of zoning to push back against change. * https://www.deeds.com/articles/houston-the-zoning-free-city-right/ https://www.deeds.com/articles/houston-the-zoning-free-city-... > This buffering ordinance is the latest edition in the city’s history of enacting land-use regulations without using the word “zoning.” Urban planners and scholars have long debated whether Houston has zoning codes that are clad in terms like “buffering.” The reality is that Houston has created a host of regulations that govern what can be built where. * https://therealdeal.com/texas/2023/03/16/dont-say-the-z-word/ https://therealdeal.com/texas/2023/03/16/dont-say-the-z-word...
ryukafalz 3y ago
> Houston, which is essentially a zoning-free city. This is a misconception: https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/forget-what-youve-heard-houston-really-does-have-zoning-sort https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/forget-what-youve-heard-ho...

Guvante 3y ago

So there is a large supply of high density housing? If housing prices are going up and higher density housing isn't going up then you have regulation blocking it. After all if people are willing to pay a $2,000 mortgage for a home you can put 4 apartments in that space and trivially get $1,000 rent for each. Note that doesn't scale down much and so lower cost of living places not going high density makes sense. In either case a normal sized house in Southern California isn't worth over a million dollars because of material costs and only indirectly due to regulation. The core reason is always demand outstrips supply. OP is saying "you can't have a balance if you restrict the supply".