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Amazon’s electric Rivian vans have delivered 150M packages

112 points by wffurr 3y ago

wffurr 3y ago
I particularly like the job they did with forward visibility on these. Much like USPS trucks; minimizing blind spots was an explicit goal. I wish all trucks and SUVs and such in my city were like that, with either low front ends or cab-over-engine designs with good visibility for pedestrians and cyclists, especially little ones.
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  Are you talking about the same step van clone that requires a touchscreen to operate the cargo door?
  - pc86 3y ago
    What does that have to do with visibility?
  - recursive 3y ago
    There's probably only one Amazon Rivian van model, so if that's a Rivian Amazon van, then yes.
    - lastofthemojito 3y ago
      It's designed to be modular (different lengths especially). There's a smaller variant for European roads that was just in the news: https://stories.rivian.com/amazon-announces-rivian-edv-europe https://stories.rivian.com/amazon-announces-rivian-edv-europ...
  - jackson1442 3y ago
    I would hope that drivers aren’t messing around in the cargo hold while driving - that sounds far more distracting than a touch screen control.
  - agloe_dreams 3y ago
    The touchscreen is in the flow as it is a digitally controlled door that ties position to gear selection for safety. There is method to the madness. I also wonder if they have plans for versions that are very different and thus putting it in the screen helps with reducing variance in the cab (no need for a second button, etc).
    - housemusicfan 3y ago
      > The touchscreen is in the flow as it is a digitally controlled door that ties position to gear selection for safety. All street legal vehicles have had simple, reliable interlocks with the shifter knob and hand brake for over 40 years with a single 12 volt lead and now you're talking software-based "flow" for safety critical functions as if this is some sort of novel improvement that should impress everyone. I'm left speechless. This is the kind of absolute madness only SV could appreciate. UPS package cars and USPS mail trucks are caveman-simple for a reason. In fact UPS is just now getting air con for the first time in 2023.
      - ahahahahah 3y ago
        > UPS package cars and USPS mail trucks are caveman-simple for a reason. In fact UPS is just now getting air con for the first time in 2023. Is it because UPS is cheap and has an exploitable workforce?
        housemusicfan 3y ago
        UPS drivers are extremely unionized. They are hardly exploitable. Many are making six figures (with overtime).
        themadturk 3y ago
        And it looks like they're about to go on strike.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Yes, and the same van that has automated cameras watching the driver at all times, making sure they are paying attention while driving.
polyterative 3y ago
these are cool
Tagbert 3y ago
I see lots of these Rivian vans when I drive to work through a light industrial section near major Boeing facilities. This kind of local, stop and go delivery service is a perfect use case for EVs. Very similar to postal delivery which also cries out for EVs.
- CameronNemo 3y ago
  Wait... I think I might know the exact place you are talking about haha. Did Amazon move in in the past couple years?
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    This is in the SoDo area south of Seattle. I'm guessing that Amazon has a fulfillment center somewhere around there due to the density of Amazon vans I see on that road.
    - CameronNemo 3y ago
      Oh nevermind then... they have another fulfillment center neighboring a Boeing facility outside of Washington, coincidentally.
- dylan604 3y ago
  > Very similar to postal delivery which also cries out for EVs. USPS is very much on the same page: https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2022/1220-usps-intends-to-deploy-over-66000-electric-vehicles-by-2028.htm https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2022/1220-...
joshstrange 3y ago
I watched a video [0] (that I think I found here, maybe Reddit) months ago about these trucks (a driver did a full “review” of it), it was pretty freaking cool. I started watching it thinking “I’ll only watch a minute or two” and got so engrossed I watched the whole thing. [0] https://youtu.be/3TFz1xqp3us https://youtu.be/3TFz1xqp3us
- mocha_nate 3y ago
  i saw the same video! the thing i was thinking about is, event though Amazon is a huge investor, the specs are so well designed for this kind of work that they could start selling to UPS, USPS, FedEx, etc.
- ryneandal 3y ago
  Hey friend! Thanks for the share, super cool watch. Hope you're doing well :)
- ortusdux 3y ago
  Doug DeMuro did a rather comprehensive walkthrough as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CWCqJl0BEs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CWCqJl0BEs Annoyingly, they didn't fix my main UX gripe with delivery vehicles, which is that they use the same lights for the hazards and turn signals. It's quite common for the right half of a stopped van to be obscured, which makes it impossible to tell the difference between "hazards on, delivering a package" and "left blinker on, about to cut in front of you".
  - gottorf 3y ago
    > my main UX gripe with delivery vehicles, which is that they use the same lights for the hazards and turn signals I don't know this for a fact, but it could very well be mandated by vehicle safety standards regulations. Of course, it wouldn't be very difficult to add extra lights like those you would see on the back of a tow truck or construction vehicle, but again that may be dictated by law.
    - ortusdux 3y ago
cj 3y ago
I saw one of these a few months ago when visiting Tampa. I was really surprised there was zero Rivian branding on the outside. More generally, electrifying these sort of vehicle fleets makes a lot of sense since usage is predictable, order volume is high if replacing a whole fleet, they run on a schedule, and the problem set can be well defined (compared to passenger vehicles where you need to solve for every edge case).
- taeric 3y ago
  I'm a bit more bullish on it. It makes some sense in dense areas, I think. Which almost certainly accounts for the majority of areas that are covered by delivery. However, the range is not to be discounted. Assuming a delivery van will operate for basically the full working day, I'd assume 200 miles is not unheard of for driving, and I see the range is about 150 miles for them. That said, https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/14/what-its-like-to-deliver-for-amazon-in-new-rivian-electric-vans.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/14/what-its-like-to-deliver-for... seems to indicate that the range is working out ok? I'm curious if that is strictly in the dense areas? Mayhap the lower density also translates to fewer deliveries such that you have a lower "duty cycle" as it were?
  - jackmott42 3y ago
    could potentially supercharge them over lunch breaks if needed. fleets could also battery swap with less complication than normal end user cars. they also have to be WAY easier to drive. they just scoot out of there rather than having to shift 9 times to get up to speed.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Not just lunch breaks. They have to return to the warehouse to reload every couple hours.
    - nomel 3y ago
      > they also have to be WAY easier to drive. they just scoot out of there rather than having to shift 9 times to get up to speed. All Amazon delivery vans are automatic.
dmix 3y ago
Love the design (rear lighting, doors, dashboard [1], all the very functional handles and space design for easy movement). It's always funny how it takes electric vehicles for car companies to take risks or do something different. It's much larger [2] than it seems from their pictures Duug Demuro gave a full tour of the vehicle https://youtu.be/3CWCqJl0BEs https://youtu.be/3CWCqJl0BEs [1] https://topelectricsuv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Rivian-EDV-700-Rivian-Amazon-EDV-interior-dashboard.jpg https://topelectricsuv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Rivian... [2] https://assets.aboutamazon.com/dims4/default/64815c9/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1999x1125+1+0/resize/2640x1486!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Famazon-blogs-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F83%2F6a%2F1e92b9d24bda82e9aac108ee61eb%2Frivian-hero-2000x1125-1.jpg https://assets.aboutamazon.com/dims4/default/64815c9/2147483...
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  The 'something different' is a large battery to take power from that has no risk of outing the vehicle if you use it too much.
AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
Interesting. I had no idea these were EV or Rivian, I've been seeing them in my area for months now. Seems to be most Amazon deliveries in my area (North NJ) are using them now, probably 80% these, 10% private vehicles and 10% of the larger UPS/FedEx-sized trucks.
bsnnkv 3y ago
I had no idea these were produced by Rivian. I really enjoy the design of these trucks and I always smile when I see one on the street.
kokanee 3y ago
Not exactly related, but I preordered a Rivian SUV and waited in line for about 2 years. By the time my turn finally came up, lots of other manufacturers had announced plans to release off-road or towing-capable EVs, many at lower price points, so I ended up cancelling. I really hope Rivian succeeds and I'm excited to learn more about their second vehicle line, but anyone purchasing right now needs to have a true early adopter mindset, because they're paying a huge premium to get a Rivian today instead of a similar car for half the price in a year or two. Also, I have to admit, as much as I love what this company is doing, both the R1 line and the Amazon van look totally cartoonish to me.
- FL410 3y ago
  Early adopter, yeah, but hardly the same kind of “1.0” an early Tesla was. I’ve had my R1T for over a year and it is without a shadow of doubt my favorite car I’ve ever owned, and that’s coming from a die hard V8-loving car dork. It’s just SO good at everything. They really hit it out of the park.
- ip26 3y ago
  the Amazon van look totally cartoonish to me So would the ubiquitous Grumman LLV, if you hadn't grown up with it.
blitzar 3y ago
My milkman (London) has been driving an electic float https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float since forever. This is not reinventing the wheel, more like rediscovering the wheel we have actually had for 100 years.
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  Moving what's basically an ultralight carriage at 20mph with some milk in it is a very different problem than moving a delivery van full of packages that goes highway speeds. The milk float replaced one horse. The internal combustion engine on a delivery vehicle represents 160 horses.
  - blitzar 3y ago
    You didnt need to have a range of 200km, and cruise at 70mph to get between number 14 and number 27 smith street and 2,000kg of payload. As for the payload - 4,000 pints of milk seems a suitable load for a milkman to deliver before morning tea time.
dhruvkalaria 3y ago
So irrelevant metric to judge the impact of vans by number of packages delivered.
- j0hnyl 3y ago
  It's relevant if X rivian vans deliver more than x sprinter vans on average, but without the comparison, it is irrelevant.
paxys 3y ago
I hate statistics like these. Are these the number of packages delivered to a few neighborhoods in a few months? Or the entirety of Amazon's load worldwide for a year? How significant is 150M packages exactly? Instead they could have shared – % of active delivery vans that are Rivian, % of the total package load handled by them, % of all miles driven, emissions reduced...anything more meaningful than just one large number without surrounding context.
- fnikacevic 3y ago
  They are called vanity measures for a reason. In this case I think it's appropriate since the source is Amazon PR looking for favourable coverage.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  Amazon shipped 4.75 billion packages in 2021 in the US alone [0]. So it's obvious why they didn't talk about percentages. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1178979/amazon-logistics-package-volume-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1178979/amazon-logistics...
- maherbeg 3y ago
  Yeah, and the next question is, is the numerator growing faster than the denominator?
readonthegoapp 3y ago
different title now ("Amazon has 5,000+ Rivian EV delivery vans on the road"), but these numbers seem... infinitesimally small. maybe it's a bigger deal because the first Rivian trucks just hit the road a couple of days ago when i thought they first hit the road a couple of years ago?
happytiger 3y ago
Considering that they do more than 5 billion deliveries a year... it's awesome to see Amazon moving towards greener technologies as these are the kinds of moves that can make a difference (large scale corporate), but there is still a ways to go!

112 points by wffurr 3y ago

I particularly like the job they did with forward visibility on these. Much like USPS trucks; minimizing blind spots was an explicit goal. I wish all trucks and SUVs and such in my city were like that, with either low front ends or cab-over-engine designs with good visibility for pedestrians and cyclists, especially little ones.

housemusicfan 3y ago
Are you talking about the same step van clone that requires a touchscreen to operate the cargo door?
- pc86 3y ago
  What does that have to do with visibility?
- recursive 3y ago
  There's probably only one Amazon Rivian van model, so if that's a Rivian Amazon van, then yes.
  - lastofthemojito 3y ago
    It's designed to be modular (different lengths especially). There's a smaller variant for European roads that was just in the news: https://stories.rivian.com/amazon-announces-rivian-edv-europe https://stories.rivian.com/amazon-announces-rivian-edv-europ...
- jackson1442 3y ago
  I would hope that drivers aren’t messing around in the cargo hold while driving - that sounds far more distracting than a touch screen control.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  The touchscreen is in the flow as it is a digitally controlled door that ties position to gear selection for safety. There is method to the madness. I also wonder if they have plans for versions that are very different and thus putting it in the screen helps with reducing variance in the cab (no need for a second button, etc).
  - housemusicfan 3y ago
    > The touchscreen is in the flow as it is a digitally controlled door that ties position to gear selection for safety. All street legal vehicles have had simple, reliable interlocks with the shifter knob and hand brake for over 40 years with a single 12 volt lead and now you're talking software-based "flow" for safety critical functions as if this is some sort of novel improvement that should impress everyone. I'm left speechless. This is the kind of absolute madness only SV could appreciate. UPS package cars and USPS mail trucks are caveman-simple for a reason. In fact UPS is just now getting air con for the first time in 2023.
    - ahahahahah 3y ago
      > UPS package cars and USPS mail trucks are caveman-simple for a reason. In fact UPS is just now getting air con for the first time in 2023. Is it because UPS is cheap and has an exploitable workforce?
      - housemusicfan 3y ago
        UPS drivers are extremely unionized. They are hardly exploitable. Many are making six figures (with overtime).
        themadturk 3y ago
        And it looks like they're about to go on strike.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Yes, and the same van that has automated cameras watching the driver at all times, making sure they are paying attention while driving.

polyterative 3y ago

these are cool

Tagbert 3y ago

I see lots of these Rivian vans when I drive to work through a light industrial section near major Boeing facilities. This kind of local, stop and go delivery service is a perfect use case for EVs. Very similar to postal delivery which also cries out for EVs.

CameronNemo 3y ago
Wait... I think I might know the exact place you are talking about haha. Did Amazon move in in the past couple years?
- Tagbert 3y ago
  This is in the SoDo area south of Seattle. I'm guessing that Amazon has a fulfillment center somewhere around there due to the density of Amazon vans I see on that road.
  - CameronNemo 3y ago
    Oh nevermind then... they have another fulfillment center neighboring a Boeing facility outside of Washington, coincidentally.
dylan604 3y ago
> Very similar to postal delivery which also cries out for EVs. USPS is very much on the same page: https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2022/1220-usps-intends-to-deploy-over-66000-electric-vehicles-by-2028.htm https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2022/1220-...

joshstrange 3y ago

I watched a video [0] (that I think I found here, maybe Reddit) months ago about these trucks (a driver did a full “review” of it), it was pretty freaking cool. I started watching it thinking “I’ll only watch a minute or two” and got so engrossed I watched the whole thing. [0] https://youtu.be/3TFz1xqp3us https://youtu.be/3TFz1xqp3us

mocha_nate 3y ago
i saw the same video! the thing i was thinking about is, event though Amazon is a huge investor, the specs are so well designed for this kind of work that they could start selling to UPS, USPS, FedEx, etc.
ryneandal 3y ago
Hey friend! Thanks for the share, super cool watch. Hope you're doing well :)
ortusdux 3y ago
Doug DeMuro did a rather comprehensive walkthrough as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CWCqJl0BEs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CWCqJl0BEs Annoyingly, they didn't fix my main UX gripe with delivery vehicles, which is that they use the same lights for the hazards and turn signals. It's quite common for the right half of a stopped van to be obscured, which makes it impossible to tell the difference between "hazards on, delivering a package" and "left blinker on, about to cut in front of you".
- gottorf 3y ago
  > my main UX gripe with delivery vehicles, which is that they use the same lights for the hazards and turn signals I don't know this for a fact, but it could very well be mandated by vehicle safety standards regulations. Of course, it wouldn't be very difficult to add extra lights like those you would see on the back of a tow truck or construction vehicle, but again that may be dictated by law.
  - ortusdux 3y ago

cj 3y ago

I saw one of these a few months ago when visiting Tampa. I was really surprised there was zero Rivian branding on the outside. More generally, electrifying these sort of vehicle fleets makes a lot of sense since usage is predictable, order volume is high if replacing a whole fleet, they run on a schedule, and the problem set can be well defined (compared to passenger vehicles where you need to solve for every edge case).

taeric 3y ago
I'm a bit more bullish on it. It makes some sense in dense areas, I think. Which almost certainly accounts for the majority of areas that are covered by delivery. However, the range is not to be discounted. Assuming a delivery van will operate for basically the full working day, I'd assume 200 miles is not unheard of for driving, and I see the range is about 150 miles for them. That said, https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/14/what-its-like-to-deliver-for-amazon-in-new-rivian-electric-vans.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/14/what-its-like-to-deliver-for... seems to indicate that the range is working out ok? I'm curious if that is strictly in the dense areas? Mayhap the lower density also translates to fewer deliveries such that you have a lower "duty cycle" as it were?
- jackmott42 3y ago
  could potentially supercharge them over lunch breaks if needed. fleets could also battery swap with less complication than normal end user cars. they also have to be WAY easier to drive. they just scoot out of there rather than having to shift 9 times to get up to speed.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Not just lunch breaks. They have to return to the warehouse to reload every couple hours.
  - nomel 3y ago
    > they also have to be WAY easier to drive. they just scoot out of there rather than having to shift 9 times to get up to speed. All Amazon delivery vans are automatic.

dmix 3y ago

Love the design (rear lighting, doors, dashboard [1], all the very functional handles and space design for easy movement). It's always funny how it takes electric vehicles for car companies to take risks or do something different. It's much larger [2] than it seems from their pictures Duug Demuro gave a full tour of the vehicle https://youtu.be/3CWCqJl0BEs https://youtu.be/3CWCqJl0BEs [1] https://topelectricsuv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Rivian-EDV-700-Rivian-Amazon-EDV-interior-dashboard.jpg https://topelectricsuv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Rivian... [2] https://assets.aboutamazon.com/dims4/default/64815c9/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1999x1125+1+0/resize/2640x1486!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Famazon-blogs-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F83%2F6a%2F1e92b9d24bda82e9aac108ee61eb%2Frivian-hero-2000x1125-1.jpg https://assets.aboutamazon.com/dims4/default/64815c9/2147483...

mensetmanusman 3y ago
The 'something different' is a large battery to take power from that has no risk of outing the vehicle if you use it too much.

AdamJacobMuller 3y ago

Interesting. I had no idea these were EV or Rivian, I've been seeing them in my area for months now. Seems to be most Amazon deliveries in my area (North NJ) are using them now, probably 80% these, 10% private vehicles and 10% of the larger UPS/FedEx-sized trucks.

bsnnkv 3y ago

I had no idea these were produced by Rivian. I really enjoy the design of these trucks and I always smile when I see one on the street.

kokanee 3y ago

Not exactly related, but I preordered a Rivian SUV and waited in line for about 2 years. By the time my turn finally came up, lots of other manufacturers had announced plans to release off-road or towing-capable EVs, many at lower price points, so I ended up cancelling. I really hope Rivian succeeds and I'm excited to learn more about their second vehicle line, but anyone purchasing right now needs to have a true early adopter mindset, because they're paying a huge premium to get a Rivian today instead of a similar car for half the price in a year or two. Also, I have to admit, as much as I love what this company is doing, both the R1 line and the Amazon van look totally cartoonish to me.

FL410 3y ago
Early adopter, yeah, but hardly the same kind of “1.0” an early Tesla was. I’ve had my R1T for over a year and it is without a shadow of doubt my favorite car I’ve ever owned, and that’s coming from a die hard V8-loving car dork. It’s just SO good at everything. They really hit it out of the park.
ip26 3y ago
the Amazon van look totally cartoonish to me So would the ubiquitous Grumman LLV, if you hadn't grown up with it.

blitzar 3y ago

My milkman (London) has been driving an electic float https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float since forever. This is not reinventing the wheel, more like rediscovering the wheel we have actually had for 100 years.

vorpalhex 3y ago
Moving what's basically an ultralight carriage at 20mph with some milk in it is a very different problem than moving a delivery van full of packages that goes highway speeds. The milk float replaced one horse. The internal combustion engine on a delivery vehicle represents 160 horses.
- blitzar 3y ago
  You didnt need to have a range of 200km, and cruise at 70mph to get between number 14 and number 27 smith street and 2,000kg of payload. As for the payload - 4,000 pints of milk seems a suitable load for a milkman to deliver before morning tea time.

dhruvkalaria 3y ago

So irrelevant metric to judge the impact of vans by number of packages delivered.

j0hnyl 3y ago
It's relevant if X rivian vans deliver more than x sprinter vans on average, but without the comparison, it is irrelevant.

paxys 3y ago

I hate statistics like these. Are these the number of packages delivered to a few neighborhoods in a few months? Or the entirety of Amazon's load worldwide for a year? How significant is 150M packages exactly? Instead they could have shared – % of active delivery vans that are Rivian, % of the total package load handled by them, % of all miles driven, emissions reduced...anything more meaningful than just one large number without surrounding context.

fnikacevic 3y ago
They are called vanity measures for a reason. In this case I think it's appropriate since the source is Amazon PR looking for favourable coverage.
alpaca128 3y ago
Amazon shipped 4.75 billion packages in 2021 in the US alone [0]. So it's obvious why they didn't talk about percentages. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1178979/amazon-logistics-package-volume-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1178979/amazon-logistics...
maherbeg 3y ago
Yeah, and the next question is, is the numerator growing faster than the denominator?

readonthegoapp 3y ago

different title now ("Amazon has 5,000+ Rivian EV delivery vans on the road"), but these numbers seem... infinitesimally small. maybe it's a bigger deal because the first Rivian trucks just hit the road a couple of days ago when i thought they first hit the road a couple of years ago?

happytiger 3y ago

Considering that they do more than 5 billion deliveries a year... it's awesome to see Amazon moving towards greener technologies as these are the kinds of moves that can make a difference (large scale corporate), but there is still a ways to go!