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‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care
- lockhouse 3y agoThe key distinction here is these laws limit gender affirming care for minors.
- TurkishPoptart 3y ago[flagged]
- dehugger 3y agoHave you ever had a conversation with a trans person? Quality of life for trans people that get the privilege of blockers is enormously higher than their counterparts. They've been in use for decades; it's not new. I cannot imagine a greater horror then having gender dysphoria, knowing exactly what is wrong, and still being forced to go through the wrong puberty (which does inflict irreparable harm, for us) because some "concerned" parents want decades of medical history on blockers before they deign to allow you to receive medical care. I wonder how that medical history is supposed to be built if no one is allowed to take blockers? I'm not even going to engage with your bad faith argument that trans kids are only in the last 2-3 years. I'm not under any illusion a person with your opinions could ever be swayed, but hopefully other reasonable people will see this comment and not fall victim to your scare tactics.
- Georgelemental 3y agoI know someone who as a teenager was in an abusive relationship, insecure about themselves, pushed into taking these experimental treatments for a few months. The doctors and therapists just handed over the prescription, not questions asked. They now sorely regret ever having taken blockers, and are hoping it hasn't damaged their fertility too much.
- theprincess 3y ago> pushed into taking these experimental treatments for a few months It's a shame that this person was in such a difficult situation, but, barring some extraordinarily rare reaction, a few months would not cause long term problems. The full impact takes several years, by 3-6 months the very first changes are only starting to become visible and many of them are things like changes to skin quality and fat distribution which revert after cessation. It's still possibly a failure that your acquaintance got on HRT or Lupron in the first place. Given that long term follow ups show, consistently, that less than 2% of trans youth "desist" and are happy with their treatments, the reasonable solution to that failure would be to require some sort of evaluation by a therapist who has been trained to spot when someone has gender dysphoria and belongs to that 98% of happy transitioners versus someone from the 2% group that will desist because their issues came from somewhere else. Instead of that sort of reasonable response, we see calls for outright bans on all treatment with many also calling for banning treatment for adults and a reversion to conversion therapy as the only "treatment" - it's not a treatment because it doesn't work and just hurts people. The reason for this, is that the vast majority of people who suddenly have such strong opinions on trans health care are not actually concerned about people's health. They've just found a way to make their prejudices against transgender people sound like reasonable concerns.
- sverona 3y agoA few months of blockers won't do much of anything in the long run. The risk of osteoporosis in the absence of sex hormones is well-known to endocrinologists, and they account for it. Even a few months of cross-sex hormones will do very little. It takes at least six months before anything irreversible happens. And "someone who did this under duress regretted it hence no one should do this" isn't a sound argument.
- TurkishPoptart 3y agoI'm talking about children. Look at the charts here. [1] Why is the number of children experiencing this "gender dysphoria" skyrocketing? It should be linear, not exponential. There is a mental craze driving this, which is extremely profitable for the medical industry. This industry is preying on children to make a profit, justifying all the research on the small percentage of trans adults that actually need this treatment. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-tran...
- mitt_romney_12 3y agoWhy would it be linear? The reasons it's increasing is because people no longer feel as much pressure to hide their true identity. It's the same reason that the number of left handed people doubled from 1920 to 1960 [1], it's not a conspiracy it's just the way social norms work [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/07/americas-increased-acceptance-gay-people-isnt-about-schools/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/07/americas-...
- test098 3y ago> Why is the number of children experiencing this "gender dysphoria" skyrocketing because it's more socially acceptable to discuss these issues than it was 50 years ago...
- peoplefromibiza 3y ago
- TurkishPoptart 3y agoYes, I have. Some trans adults really need these treatments, but that does not explain the 1000% increase in so-called "trans kids" over the past 2-3 years.
- sverona 3y agoMy fellow human, I was a trans kid in 2008.
- theprincess 3y agoPuberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. All of the bans on them specifically still allow them to be used for this purpose, because they are indeed safe enough. It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. The Alan Turing lie is laughable, Lupron wasn't even invented until 20+ years after Alan Turing was given hormone injections. The falsehoods you're spouting have the hallmarks of coming from Twitter infographics meant to enrage you. Trans care has been made into a wedge issue by US politicians as a way of taking advantage of people's ignorance about the topic, and their knee-jerk dislike of gender non-conformity. An incredible amount of non-sense is being spread, the same as it was about gay people in the 70's and 80's. > In fact, "trans kids" has never been a thing until about two or three years ago. Another blatant lie, but it's a fun opportunity to talk about the first trans kid in the US, Agnes Torres. She started taking hormone therapy as a child in 1950. Nearly 80 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_Torres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_Torres Doctors declared her intersex and she was given a fast track to having her documents changed. She went on to marry and have a nice normal life, because people left her alone. Trans people today could have the same if not for the vicious ignorance propagated by political parties looking for fresh meat.
- bletchp 3y ago> Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. That's a different treatment though, because puberty eventually resumes. Halting it entirely is more akin to the castrati children [1] who had their puberty physically blocked through removal of testicles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato
- mitt_romney_12 3y agoPuberty blockers are not permanent [1] they're taken until people start hormone therapy at which point they go through normal puberty [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dyspho...
- mitt_romney_12 3y ago> This is not "care" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/ "These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes" - that sure sounds like care to me > Attacking and shaming concerned parents as being "transphobic" for questioning this practice is not a helpful solution. We don't have the long-term data to ensure this is safe for kids There are plenty of parents who are concerned that vaccines cause autism and question that practice. That doesn't mean vaccinations are unsafe. We do have data and overwhelmingly shows that these kinds of treatment are safe and effectice https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202201/the-evidence-trans-youth-gender-affirming-medical-care https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/2022... > In fact, "trans kids" has never been a thing until about two or three years ago. This is like saying that gay kids didn't exist until the 80s
- sudosysgen 3y agoPuberty blockers are given to kids all the time for things as frivolous as them not being tall enough, and have a benign safety profile, especially when they're discontinued before the age of ~16 (which is the case here). They've been used for more than 40 years and few grave side effects have been recorded. It's not a new thing, as I've said, it was and still is fairly common for short kids to be put on GnRH blockers.
- Georgelemental 3y agohttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9150228/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9150228/ > With puberty blockers and in adults treated with GAHT, unintended systemic biological changes may occur which may increase the risk of chronic diseases, such as osteoporosis. Sex hormones are well known in playing a crucial role in bone acquisition at puberty, 6 and in adulthood, it regulates bone homeostasis.7–9 Therefore, hormone treatments (puberty blockers and GAHT) can affect bone health both in adolescents who undergo puberty suspension and in transgender adults.
- sudosysgen 3y agoI don't understand the point you're trying to make. Yes, GnRH blockers will affect bones in adulthood, that's exactly why they're used to make kids taller, because they give more time for bones to develop. This is, of course, an unintended effect in the context of transgender healthcare, but it's fairly benign. Gender affirming hormones, such as estrogen, do cause osteoporosis - that's why women are more prone to osteoporosis than men. Puberty blockers have not been linked to osteoporosis in pre-pubescent patients, despite more than 40 years of use. GnRH blockers are however dangerous in adults because you need adult level of sex hormones for your bodily function and as such are generally not used for an extended period of time - in pre-pubescent children however it moreso prevents their increase from puberty than it suppresses current levels. This is because GnRH is not produced in significant quantities before puberty, so suppressing it further has far fewer side effects.
- za3faran 3y agoWe'll probably look at what's happening today the same way we look at lobotomies. It's quite scary. As usual, those people are trying to address the symptoms, not the cause.
- theprincess 3y ago[flagged]
- localplume 3y ago[dead]
- sverona 3y ago> This comment implies that you support conversion therapy. Conversion therapy has been tried, in every possible fashion, and has never worked. It is functionally just torture that leaves people shattered emotionally and sometimes physically. Supporting it is inhumane. I think you're jumping to conclusions --- my reading of GP is that "the cause" == dysphoria.
- theprincess 3y ago> I think you're jumping to conclusions --- my reading of GP is that "the cause" == dysphoria. Conversion therapists like Ken Zucker know full well about gender dysphoria and helped create the old "gender identity disorder" diagnosis in DSM IV. The "conversion" they are trying to achieve is to change the child's gender identity so that it's congruent with their sex via conversion therapy. This has failed spectacularly time and time again, and yet, prejudice against trans people, keeps folks interested in "treating" gender dysphoria in this manner. There was an article on Zucker and his practices in 2008. https://www.npr.org/2008/05/07/90247842/two-families-grapple-with-sons-gender-preferences https://www.npr.org/2008/05/07/90247842/two-families-grapple... What it comes down to is just punishing gender non-conforming behavior. Kids treated in this way have been prone to commit suicide as adults, or, to transition anyway but then have to deal with a lifetime of ridicule for having the marks of a male puberty on their body. Outing them as transgender at a glance, whereas if they'd have had access to gender affirming care they'd have been able to blend in and, you know, go buy milk at the store without being gawked at or harassed.
- flangola7 3y ago>In fact, "trans kids" has never been a thing until about two or three years ago. I didn't know I was still a child as recently as 2020. I remember fondly having a girls' theater night to see Shrek with my mom and sister, but I must have hallucinated all of it! Trans kids are just as much a thing as cis kids and have been for just as long. The existence of a thing is not dependant on it being in the public consciousness.
- anaisbetts 3y agoLiterally every major respected pediatric care organization in the US disagrees with you. Please bring better evidence to HN when making such claims.
- eesmith 3y ago> the same as in Lupron, which was force-fed to Alan Turing 1) Turing was not force-fed. He chose that treatment over spending a year in prison. https://archive.org/details/alanturingenigma0000hodg_q8b8/page/472/mode/2up?q=%22year+in+prison%22&view=theater https://archive.org/details/alanturingenigma0000hodg_q8b8/pa... 2) Turing was given DES - diethylstilbestrol - a nonsteroidal estrogen medication. It is an agonist of the estrogen receptors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol . For a non-Wikipedia source, https://archive.org/details/prof.-alan-turing-decoded-a-biography/page/n245/mode/2up?q=Stilboestrol%2C https://archive.org/details/prof.-alan-turing-decoded-a-biog... 3) Lupron is a brand name for leuprorelin, "in the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) analogue family of medications". It looks nothing like DES and has a very different method of action ("decreasing gonadotropin and therefore decreasing testosterone and estradiol"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuprorelin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuprorelin 4) Leuprorelin wasn't discovered until 1973. https://academic.oup.com/jjco/article/43/4/357/976035?login=false https://academic.oup.com/jjco/article/43/4/357/976035?login=... . Turing died in 1954. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing . Since that was outright wrong, I will easily assume everything else you write on the topic is equally wrong.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kneebonian 3y ago> The data released by the group, which calls itself SiegedSec, includes South Carolina police files, a list of licensed therapists in Texas and contact details for court officials in Nebraska. Meanwhile the supposedly targeted agencies deny they suffered a breach. This strikes me as a group that is less capable than they want people to believe, but on the other hand knowing how well local and start government do at InfoSec I also have a hard time doubting it.
- mitt_romney_12 3y agoTo be fair given past experience I would expect victims of a breach to deny that it happened
- skymast 3y ago[flagged]
- 0max 3y ago[flagged]
- kayfox 3y agoOnly a small percentage of furries own fursuits.
- Georgelemental 3y agoPuberty is an incredibly complicated process, involving innumerable intertwined signaling pathways, gene expression changes, physical and mental changes, etc. We are only beginning to understand it all; to think we can just "pause" it like an MP3 player is the height of hubris. These experimental treatments have many potential negative side effects, including osteoporosis and infertility. Teenagers who feel insecure about their bodies (which is totally normal at that age) are being pressured and induced into potentially destroying their future at an age where they are not mentally mature to make these permanent life-altering decisions. Many will sorely regret it, some will even take their own lives. A tragedy in the making
- pritambaral 3y ago> ... are being pressured and induced into ... Citation needed.
- glimshe 3y agoAgreed. We've created societal structures and cultural norms that have survived thousands of years to deal with teenagers, which have existed and behaved like teenagers since the dawn of humankind. Our civilization exists because of the systems that we put in place, good or bad, and they allowed us to not only survive, but also thrive. Our thriving included getting rid of many bad ideas and norms along the way. Whenever we want to experiment with radical changes in our systems, we need to be very careful. New radical approaches lack the test of time, and should be introduced carefully when there is potential for widespread negative impact. Today we're saying that a large number of teenagers actually would be better off with a permanent change in gender. This extraordinary claim, which goes against biology and our established cultural norms, could be true but we have to recognize it as extraordinary and approach with extreme care. Maybe one day we'll figure out how many teenagers actually would benefit from this, but right now it's clear to me that we're just going all-in on an untested paradigm with great potential for irreversible pain and suffering.
- test098 3y ago[flagged]
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- Der_Einzige 3y ago[flagged]
- wooque 3y ago[flagged]