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> Discipline does work; it's ultimately what the 'bad' kids get when they have runins with the criminal justice system. …and does that work? Recidivism rates w
by afavour 3y ago
> Discipline does work; it's ultimately what the 'bad' kids get when they have runins with the criminal justice system.
…and does that work? Recidivism rates would suggest otherwise.
- monero-xmr 3y agoConsidering a large experiment has just occurred with progressive prosecutors no longer putting criminals in jail, and the SF prosecutor was recalled and a tough-on-crime mayor was elected in NYC, I think the results are that “throwing criminals in jail” works better than not.
- afavour 3y agoAs an NYC resident I can assure you in at least one of those examples you are vastly, vastly oversimplifying matters.
- mikeyouse 3y agoBoth examples are silly and bad. Alameda County (Oakland) elected a tough on crime DA at about the same time as SF’s “reform” one and their crime rate increased more than SFs in that period.. there are no easy answers in policing or discipline.
- monero-xmr 3y agoYes the “crime rate” when no one goes through the hassle to report petty crimes because it’s a pain in the ass and they won’t solve it anyway. The stats are a joke and everyone knows it.
- mikeyouse 3y agoYeah except for this conversation, we're clearly talking about violent crime which increased in Oakland at a rate far greater than it did in SF.. and I can't imagine your contention that the people of San Francisco are less likely to report violent crime compared to people living 10 miles away..
- kjkjadksj 3y agoTo be fair, theres no way to reliably control for the affect of the da without a parallel universe with a weak on crime oakland da. Especially when certain violent crimes like murder are so rare in the population to begin with where a single multiple shooting event could skew things significantly year over year.
- mikeyouse 3y agoYep. No argument there. Which definitely cuts both ways though. The 'weak on crime' DA in SF was lambasted and ultimately recalled for a crime spike that was smaller in magnitude than the crime spike in much of the country in areas with all manner of DAs and Policing policies.
- zmgsabst 3y agoIf you want to treat crime through a disease model, then you should quarantine the infected and prevent transmissions, eg by them victimizing more people. Somehow, that part of medicine never makes it into these “alternatives” — which makes claims of “systems thinking” or “crime as disease” sound like shallow pretenses for performative virtue rather than legitimate considered policy.
- afavour 3y agoAt no point did I say I wanted to treat crime through a disease model so your "shallow pretense" dismissal feels out of place. All I'm saying is that it's pretty obvious jailing criminals is incredibly expensive and not particularly effective at reducing future crime.